Have you considered a Howitzer with a shoulder stock? riflerick

 

Welcome to the forum!
Personaly I'm NOT a huge fan of pain!
I put a Simms pad on my factory ported 1895M in place of the factory pad & that made the gun MUCH more pleasent to shoot. I still limit my self to 10-20 shots per range session. Accuracy starts to go down after about 20 rds (it's me, not the gun).
Factory loads aren't an issue, but when you get to 420gr & heavier cast bullet loads you can make the beast as brutal as you desire! Mild to wild it will do it all. I've never shot heavier than 420gr bullets my self (& have no desire to!) but I know guys shoot 500gr+ from them. That HAS to hurt! I'm just shooting 420s at around 1830fps.

 

Guys I have a 30-30 336 TS, but I love big bores. I keep debating between a .444 and a .450. How much more recoil does a .450 have? I am not recoil shy, and have shot a .444 about 50 times (my uncles) I also have a 300WM, SO I like I said I don't mind recoil at all. BUT I am looking for something that makes you want to stop shooting after 10 rounds.

oh yeah this is my first post! hello fellow Marlin brothers!

I've got several 45-70's in Marlin GG's and Siamese Mausers and a #1. Also several Marlins in 450M and a Bolt 458 Win Mag.

Hot loaded 45-70 and 450M are about the same in felt recoil as a pump 12ga with 3" slugs.

 

Side notes - I LOVE my Marlins and to para phrase Charlton Heston, they will have to be pried out of my cold dead hands.

And not to take anything away from the Marlins in anyway (please see my first sentence) - if I were looking for a "one gun" to cover the world for hunting (and satisfy the need for recoil) it would be a bolt action in 458 Win Mag. While some of my very hot 45-70 and 450M 300gr hand loads can just enter the performance envelope of the 458 Win Mag, the 458 Win Mag can be loaded down to cover the entire envelopes of the 45-70 and 450M and also taken up to retina detachment (literally) recoil levels. If you do travel beyond the US and your ammo gets lost along the way, it is MUCH easier to find factory loaded 458 Win Mag in nearly every country - especially Africa. If you can find 45-70 (scarce) they are the normal lower pressure Trapdoor safe factory loadings. Anything in 450M is VERY, VERY scarce.

Just another side note - some guys will advocate moving to the 458 LOTT because you can shoot 458 Win Mag in them too.
Just passing on my experiences...millage will vary.

 

I have a Marlin 1895 MXLR (450 Marlin) and installed a Limbsaver Recoil Pad as well as a C&H Mercury Recoil Reducer. I shot 40 rounds of 325 grn LE ammo from the bench at the range and recoil was manageable, no soreness the next day

 

My brother has the MXLR and with that thick rubber recoil pad, I think there is less felt recoil than my 444. I liken it to shooting a 30-06.

 

I don't know about the 444 but I've fired more than my share of '06 rounds from most platforms out there and I can't recall any '06 round as "mild" as the 450. A couple full-on loads in 300 Mags might come close, as the 450 is not a plinker until you go with light bullets at "moderate" velocities. It's definately a young man's caliber if you want to put in a lot of range time with it using 400/405 grain bullets at 1,700/1,800fps - slow them up some (1,400/1,500fps) and it's not as painful. The factory 350's will get your attention off the bench.

 

The factory 350's will get your attention off the bench.

Can't argue with that! Especially with the useless factory 'recoil pad'.

Roscoe

 

BUT I am looking for something that makes you want to stop shooting after 10 rounds.

oh yeah this is my first post! hello fellow Marlin brothers!

The 444 loaded with 300+ grain bullets will do that. The 45-70, if loaded hot and heavy, will also kick hard. But if you want the hardest kicking lever-gun using stock ammo, the 450 is you rifle.

The bad part is there has not been any 450 Marlin brass available in over a year.

 

My roommate has a 450 and he shot it once and it was to much for him. I shot like 6 rounds threw it and I was done. It sat in his safe for years and then I bought a caldwell lead sled and I finished off his one box of ammo. I still didnt like shooting the 450 of the lead sled. My 444 I love to shoot. Have shot several hunder rounds threw it. That 450 is a monster!

 

If you hand load the 450 with 300g bullets can be quite mild... bot 30-30 but very managable.

or the 400g can be stout

The factory Horn 350 is kinda stout.

 

Owning both, I think there is a noticable difference between the two, shooting factory ammo. I see(feel) little difference between the .450 LE 325gr and 350grFN loads, but at nearly the same velocity shooting a .450 325gr LE as the .444 LE shooting a 265gr, there's bound to be some difference. I agree with those who say the .444 can be pleasant enough to shoot a box or two, but shooting a full box of .450 can be tuff. I find a .300 mag to be much easier to my shoulder, for what that's worth.

 

I don't know about the 444 but I've fired more than my share of '06 rounds from most platforms out there and I can't recall any '06 round as "mild" as the 450. A couple full-on loads in 300 Mags might come close, as the 450 is not a plinker until you go with light bullets at "moderate" velocities. It's definately a young man's caliber if you want to put in a lot of range time with it using 400/405 grain bullets at 1,700/1,800fps - slow them up some (1,400/1,500fps) and it's not as painful. The factory 350's will get your attention off the bench.

I don't agree with that. The pad on the MXLR is really thick and I can tell you felt recoil with the 350 gr Hornady FN factory round is LESS than my 444SS shooting 265 gr loads. Maybe if you are shooting the M with the hard rubber pad, I would agree, but with the thick pad, it's not hard shooting off the bench. I've put 40 rounds through one and it didn't bother me. Of course, shooting 405 gr loads is going to give you more recoil, just like shooting 300 gr and 330 gr loads in the 444.

But recoil is so subjective, I've seen people take one shot out of my Remington 760 pump in 30-06 and tell me they aren't going to shoot it anymore. That's why a lot of guns end up at gun dealers with only 2 or 3 rounds gone out of a box of ammo.

 

We shoot 45-70 out of a 22 inch barrel, mild to warm, and it is no way close to a Win Mag.
I'd say its not even on par with the 30-06s fired from the M1 Garand. Close to the 30-06 bolt gun which are hot loaded rounds.

Its all on how you load it. We have never shot a factory round out of any of our rifles.
Our weenie load is 5grs of green dot, on top of 55 grains of 2f black, veggie wad, filler and a 405 RN cast.
If your worried, just loadem light.

 

Here is a comparison for recoil energy across multiple well known cartridge loads

This doesn't cover every possible load, just common ones. The 450 although a hard kicker is nothing compared to the ones below it!

 

bigGUNS04

Welcome to MO.

Not sure why you want something that will make you want to stop shooting after 10 rounds.
Load some 300 gr bullets at 2200 fps or some 405 gr bullets at 1900 fps, those will rock ya but its not too bad, less than my 338 RUM with 250 gr PT's at 3000 fps.
If you want some pain, replace the recoil pad with a hard plastic or steel butt plate. The fun will stop by the 10th round fired. ;D

JD338

 

That's why they put that thick pad on it.

 

I'm pretty sure a 550 Grain Crater @ 1500 will put the 450's recoil in the upper 50's.

 

I have a ported guide gun in 450 Marlin. I shot it twice. My wife wanted to shoot it, she's a real trooper, she almost dropped it. My buddy shot it three times and wouldnt shoot it anymore. A limbsaver would be a plus. And I'm sure the XLR's with the thick factory pad are better. I have 3 444's and I can shoot them all day.

 

The XLR pads are nice. I'm pretty sure they are Pachmayer Decelerator pads. They are still stiff to shoot from the bench but hunting positions are not at all bad or painful.

 

you want shoulder abuse, you should try my winchester 94 timber carbine in 450. its about a pound or so lighter than the 1895 and wicked as hell. around my house we call it the "beast". i've shot the 1895M and the win 94 and can tell you for sure the 94 is worse. i bought 20 boxes of leverevolution on sale for $19/box right after i got it and by my calculations that will last several lifetimes. my 14 y/o son wanted to try it and loaded 3 into it and unloaded 2. and he isn't recoil shy. i can honestly say that out of all my guns it is the one that i will shoot the least. and i have a rem 600 350 mag and rem 7600 35 whelen factory carbine and they ain't kids guns either.

 

I have shot and hunted for years with the 444 and 450. Both have some recoil...the 450 is a bit more stout. It all comes down to how you have your body handle...or roll with the recoil. With a little practice, either will not bother you but so much. The Marlin design works well with the body.

On a side note...I have a 45-70 Winchester take-down with a not very wide brass crescent butt plate. After about a dozen stout hand loads, I will say ouch that is enough.

 

You know, when you shoot it at game in the field, you won't even notice the recoil.

 

After some range time last weekend off the bench I knew I had shot it but didn't think it was too much different than my 45/70. As per Hal's note above, you wouldn't notice it in the field shooting game.

 

I agree. Mine seems to be quite a handful off of the bench (it's snappy). But shooting offhand or kneeling where your body can 'roll' with the recoil makes it very tolerable.