45/70.

No disrespect to the M 450 but the 45/70 can be whatever to any owner.

IMHO.

 

I love my 450 & it will do anything a 45-70 will.
That said, if you don't already have dies or brass it's a tossup. Go with whatever you find that you like (wood, etc) or get the best price on.

 

I love my 450 & it will do anything a 45-70 will.
That said, if you don't already have dies or brass it's a tossup. Go with whatever you find that you like (wood, etc) or get the best price on.

Roger that Vance. I love my 450. I went looking for a 45/70 and found the 450 on sale for much less. I went home and looked at the numbers and it does seem that the 45/70 has more ammo options available. As a handloader however, it is easy to work up to anything that the 45/70 can do. If your not a hand loader you will be stuck with a limited types of ammo. I.E. Hornady 350 gn Interlock, 325 g FTX and a few others.

 

It is hard to go wrong with either one.

 

If I was to get a rifle of this type, how would you decide which one?
All I know of the 450 is that it's only about 100 fps faster than the 45-70. Used in a Marlin, you're limited in the size of bullet. The Hornady manual says that the 450 is best for the person who doesn't reload because the reloader can get the full potential out of the 45-70 which makes them pretty much the same. I think that the load data supports this.
If I remember right, the cases for the 45-70 are cheaper. Everything else seems the same.

Is there a condition where you could say, "I wouldn't take that shot with a 45-70 but I would if I had a 450 Marlin."

So where are you guys on this? I have no first-hand experience with this caliber; only questions. I only know, so far, what I read. Tell me where I have it right...or wrong.
I am a reloader so I will never buy commercial ammo.
I want one. I just want the right one.

I think you already have a pretty good idea of the slight differences between these two cartridges. Numbers I've seen published give the .450 LE almost a 200 FPS gain over the 45-70 LE load, fairly significant. The 350gr .450 load is pretty much a duplicate of the hot Buffalo Bore 45-70 350gr +P load which costs about a buck more per round, than the factory Hornady .450/350. Places I've looked, the price of the .450 LE ammo has remained at reasonable price levels. I recently just got a couple boxes for $25/box which was less than the 45-70 LE fodder. One internet dealer shows a price of $20/box now for the .450 LE ammo.

The down side might be for the non handloader looking to shoot some milder loads as there really are no mild loads manufactured for the .450. If hot loads and power are what you're desiring and you're not wanting or able to handload, I'd say the .450 might be the right choice. If endless power levels, available in both factory and hand loads are what you want or need and you will hand load, perhaps the 45-70 would be the wise choice. Powerful loads are available to the non handloader for the 45-70, but they are pricey. If recoil is not a big concern, from what I've seen, the 45-70 LE ammo is the most reasonably priced load available. The other lower velocity loads are normally priced higher than the LE stuff.

Both my .450 and my 45-70 shoot the LE stuff very well, little to choose from there. The .450/350 also shoots well, but not as well as the 325s. 400gr loads I've shot in my 45-70 also shoot well, but again, not the same sub MOA as the LE.

 

everybody is so hung up on the fps that they are forgetting the main difference THE BELT
so weather to buy on base of fps its a tossup with the value leaning towards the 45-70.
However if your going to chamber a bolt action on either one of these then its the Marlin hands down

 

The power is equal for both rounds...if you reload the 45-70.

Same goes for velocity...

So it comes down to availability and economics...Which is cheaper to own and shoot?

45-70

 

I have a 450 and if I were to do it again I would get another 450.

If you reload the 450 is great BUT you are correct in thinking there is just not a lot of reloading data for it.
400gr is as much as I can find in the books.

Still 400 gr is fine with me and I am very happy with my choice… yours may vary.

 

To me the 450 is better than the 45-70. The 45-70 brass is cheaper but it is very thin. It is easy to damage. A 450 Marlin can be downloaded to 45-70 specs.

Saami spec for 45-70 is 28,000 psi

Saami spec for 450 Marlin is 43,000 psi

 

Do you guys know if Marlin sells more .450's or .444's?

 

Do you guys know if Marlin sells more .450's or .444's?

Now that is an interesting question. I'd wager the 444 sells better, but that is a guess. I wonder if Tomray would be able to enlighten us?

-Mark

 

If you reload I see no reason to go with the 450. I could see picking up a 450 if you have an older 45-70 and fear getting the wrong load in it or if you aren't willing to get into reloading. I could also see getting one if you have this out of control desire to play with every a little different round you can get your hands on.

 

That is basically what I have read. The 450 is designed for the shooter who doesn't reload. Commercial ammo for the 45-70 is loaded to lower levels because of the old 45-70's still out there. Liability.
I see that even loading your own in 45-70 doesn't quite get you to the levels of the 450. But it's so close that the minimal difference isn't enough to matter. I did look at the brass last time I was stocking up on powder. The belt makes the cartridges a bit more pricey.
This certainly doesn't make a 450 irrelevant by any means. For the person who wants guns, there doesn't have to be a reason. If I was richer, I'd like to have both. Just cuz. But for starters, I think I'll look at getting a 45-70.
Thanks everyone. This has turned into a great thread. I've learned alot.

 

Good morning
As already stated IF you are a reloader it really does not make a difference between the two calibers. BUT if you are not a reloader and you are a 450 owner I would be stocking up on ammo.
I can get 45-70 ammo in most gun shops I saw last time up in the state of ILL: But the pickings on 450 were real slim.
So why not just reload ?? Better yet cast your own lead and BE FREE of the waiting about to find ammo.

 

So, recapping your original post:

If I was to get a rifle of this type, how would you decide which one?
1. All I know of the 450 is that it's only about 100 fps faster than the 45-70.

2. Used in a Marlin, you're limited in the size of bullet.

3. The Hornady manual says that the 450 is best for the person who doesn't reload because the reloader can get the full potential out of the 45-70 which makes them pretty much the same. I think that the load data supports this.

4. If I remember right, the cases for the 45-70 are cheaper. Everything else seems the same.

So . . . what was the question? ;D

 

Well I am late to this thread but here goes.
1) I have always wanted a big bore lever gun.
2) I found two on sale when Sportsman's warehouse closed the local store ( 450MXLR and 45/70 XLR).
3) The 450 was $100 less than the 45/70.
4) I do not reload.

I got the 450MXLR and stocked up on enough ammo to let me hunt with it for the rest of my life (aprox 10 rnds per year). Now as long as it is available and to allow additional shooting during the year I replace the old ammo I use with a new ammo. Should the source of ammo dry up I still have my stockpile to see me through my remaining hunting seasons.

 

So the question was:
It seemed that I could make sense of a selection; reloader-vs commercial shooter. But because I have no real experience with either, I wondered what the subject experts thought. Good info here. I am planning to be with experience. Mine will be with a 45-70

 

I could not trade my 450 brass for 45-70 until I dropped down to 2 for 1 and I finally got a taker. I have a set of new RCBS dies in the trading post that I cant get a bite on. Apparently for reloaders the 45-70 is much more popular. Just my $.02 .Fom

 

I used to have a 45-70 and wish I still had it. I recently went looking for one and wound up with a 450 instead (1895mxlr). It made more sense to me at the time because I wanted to shoot some pretty stout loads and the Hornady 450 ammo is over $20/box cheaper than Buffalo Bore ammo for the 45-70. I don't handload so it made a difference to me. While equal loads can be had for the 45-70 in factory form they are much more expensive. I'll still probably get another 45-70 some day though.

 

I am not going to get into any debate about this versus that but I will offer another fact from Speer Technicians which "some" members, with little strait wall experience, tend to disagree with, from there home testing aka Brian Pierces case volumes for the 45-70 and 450 Marlin which is a sticky on the 45-70 forum.

Jayco

 

I wasn't saying the 450 has more powder capacity. I just meant that the Hornady factory loads are loaded hotter for virtually the same price as the light 45-70 loads which makes it more affordable to shoot powerful loads for the non-handloader.

 

For me, the 450 has opened a few more doors for reloading. Being able to run higher pressure gives you the ability to use different powders that you might not be able to use with the 45/70. With the brass being heavier in the 450 vs. the 45/70 that makes it more reliable in the long run. Some of my brass with the 450 has been reloaded 10 plus times. No I’m not running max loads but I not running loads that feels like you are shooting a 22-250 either.

Hope a different looks helps.

44 mag nut

 

I don't have a dog in the .45 caliber debate. That being said, I have been thinking another big-bore would fit in the locker beside my .444XLR.

I haven't taken the plunge - - yet. But if and when I do, it would be a .45-70 (I am thinking really hard about that 1895C - I think that is the cowboy model) for a couple of reasons.

1.) I don't think there is much the .450 Marlin can do, that the .45-70 can't do about as well.
2.) Availability of .45-70 ammo and availability of components for reloading is better (from everything I have seen in local shops or read about from folks in more remote areas).

Whether or not I would like the .45-70 better, the same, or less than my .444 is a whole different subject. From that standpoint, my .444 will handle most all the situations I am ever likely to encounter just as well as a .45-70 would. So, you see, it isn't a matter of necessity, but rather one of desire.

 

While it is common knowledge that the 45-70 and 450marlin are ballistic equals, it seems that it isn't common knowledge to know that the 450marlin does this with at least 4 to 8 grains less powder. So the 450marlin may be a ballistic twin with the 45-70 in velocity it isn't so in efficiency, thats one of the pros it gets fore being a modern cartridge.

 

I just recently bought a 450 Marlin and haven't had any trouble finding ammo for it. As it has been stated before, if you handload it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Since I don't handload the 450 makes more sense for me because most of it's factory ammo is more potent that 45-70 factory ammo. Now Buffalo Bore 45-70 ammo is a tad faster than the 450 but it costs a lot more than the Hornady 450 ammo and is harder to find unless you order it from Midway or similar site. I still like the 45-70 though and will eventually get another one. I hate that I sold the one I had.