Oh, jeez. You would hafta put me on the spot like that.

I don't know that I have one in a practical sense. I flit from one powder to another like a woman with too many suitors. All in the name of gathering information. Or that's my way of rationalizing it, anyway.

I suppose another way of justifying it is that I could use anything from RL7 to Accurate 2520 or 4064, but lemme narrow the choices a bit. You may agree with my reasoning. Or you may not.

I can't see using a super compressed load, heavy on the powder, if a lighter load of a different powder also fills the case. So IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 are out, and my preference of the IMR's is 3031. I also now prefer it to Reloder 7 due to this better case filling characteristic, which leads to lower velocity variations.

IMR 4895 is considerably slower than H4895 in the .35 Remington.

I don't necessarily value the ball powders or the short extrudeds in the .35 Remington with the 200 grain RN's as case space is not so critical. They are only helpful with the 220 Speer and truthfully, I've been able to get good velocities with long stick extruded powders as well with compression that is acceptable.

I like the temperature insensitive powders but would drop them in a hot second if a standard powder gave better accuracy. Deer season here is usually down in the 20's opening morning. Not that cold, so I may not value that insensitivity as much as a guy that lived in Canada.

Easy metering? Nice to have, but I often dump IMR 3031 through the measure at the range without weighing and get low extreme spreads anyway. Depending upon your measure, maybe, but the Lee I most often use handles extruded powders just fine (a little trouble with very fine ball powders). Admittedly, my other measures are a little crunchy with long extrudeds like 3031. It's not likely you'll shoot many prairie dogs with a .35 Remington so the volume loading characteristics that make ball powders so desirable don't apply. I rather enjoy carefully loading my 20 deer season rounds every year. For testing at the range, I often dump through a measure no matter what the powder is, only weighing to fine tune a velocity range or to record data back home for future reference to a known standard.

I like H322 but not when it's loaded according to manual specs with 200's (credit Jack Monteith at Beartooth for commenting on that - it's true) due to position sensitivity. Better with 180's or heavier when loaded to higher than standard velocities to improve loading density, or in single shot pistols.

The slower powders (IMR 4895 and slower) tend to give slightly higher velocity variations in my guns than the slightly faster burners that are loaded to good loading density with the light and midweight bullets. Example of a good medium speed powder with good load density would be - again - IMR 3031.

I'm currently using Ramshot TAC as my powder for the last two deer seasons and probably this one as well. 41.8 grains is giving 2250 fps with the 200 RN Core-Lokt (please carefully work up - standard disclaimer - use a chronograph, please). It is temperature insensitive, clean burning, meters well and fills the case well for a compact ball powder. The velocity variations it gives with 180's are a little high, but with the 200 RN they are as low as can be desired. Their X-terminator is worth looking into for the same reasons with a bit less load density, as I recall.

This powder (TAC) would combine many of the characteristics reloaders consider desirable in a .35 Remington powder, but I must admit if they ever discontinued IMR 3031 I would have a fit. As a bonus, TAC recently went for less than 10 dollars a pound and I picked up a bunch of it.

The reason I'm not so dogmatic about saying a single choice is THE powder for the .35 Remington is my belief that, given a reasonably appropriate powder that fills the case and is not too slow, accuracy is more dependent upon the bullet used than any other factor. Still, if a given load shoots, you'll have a hard time getting some guys to try anything else. Who could blame them?

I'm just inquisitive by nature. Due to long familiarity 3031 will always be on the shelf.

 

Thanks John, I went ahead and picked up some more IMR 3031 when I found it at a new shop for $18.49. He was cheaper than the local supply by about $4. I picked up a pound each of H4198, H4895, RL-7, and H322 at the same price. He didn't have but singles and said it would probably be higher next time. :roll: Thanks for the reply, Rick

 

Ditto what .35Remington said. I used a lot of H322, and IMR3031 before stumbling onto H4895. (Also a bit of RL-7, 4198's, BL-C2 and others)

That said, all my loading of the .35 has been with 180 and 200gr bullets, with the exception of some 158's.

The 158's do better with a faster powder, but for the 180's and 200's, its H4895 for me.

I haven't really looked at any more powders/bullets with the .35 since developing my load with the 200gr CorLokt and H4895. I does any and everything I'll ever want from a .35.

Having many immiently better varmint rifles, the .35 is a dedicated woods rifle/deer buster, so......................

 

Another powder that is worth taking a look at is AA2015. I have found it have outstanding accuracy with the 200 gr RN in the 35 Rem. I have 3, 35 Rems, 336D, 336CS, and SC and the same load of 2015 shoots well in all 3 rifles. The velocity IIRC is around 2000 FPS. It kills deer dead at 200 yards

 

I too like IMR-3031 and H-4895. With the 200 gr. Rem I stoke it with 38.5 gr. of H-4895 and is all you could ask for. In 180 gr. Speer I use 38.0 gr. of IMR-3031 for a real accuracy load.

 

I've only tried two powders so far - H4895 and AA2520. Using the Rem 200 C-L I get much better results with H4895, accuracy wise.

With the AA2520, I'm finding it works really good with the 180 Speer for me. This powder seems to develop very little pressure in a .35 Rem and I must confess I've been loading it over book max. Has anyone else been trying any "+P" loads with AA2520?

 

Sweet spot for my 336CS-35Rem using the Hornady 200gr RN is 37.0gr/H4895. Very accurate.....will shoot 5-shot cloverleafs at 50yds and 1.5" groups at 100 yds all day long.

Dan

 

Alan, Kart, good mention of the Accurate powders. It so happened that Dave (Alan knows him) ran down Johan Loubser at Accurate, who is their ballistician and is pretty much like talking to a walking ballistic sliderule.

Dave queried whether Johan could recommend some loads that would be closer to a 42,000 pressure standard.

I know what you're gonna say, Alan! We just hadda ask. You keep killing deer with what you're using - I'm sure, like you say, they'll never know the difference. Has your boy shot any more critters yet?

Anyway, to 2520 specifically, we worked up to Johan's recommendations. He noted their Accurate 4064 is the same burn rate as 2520, so I did some loading of that powder as well. Maybe I'll mention it some other time.

Okay, with the 200 Hornady RN:

These are not to the maximum. Please work up to everything with a chronograph.

40.0 AA2520 2130 fps av. velocity
41.0 AA2520 2160 ""

With the 220 Speer:

39.0 AA2520 My rifle 2085 fps; in Dave's rifle 39.5 grains gave 2120 fps.
40.0 AA2520 My rifle 2125 fps average
41.0 AA2520 Dave's rifle 2200 fps average
42.0 AA2520 My rifle 2203 fps average. Dave's rifle gave ~2250 fps, but he decided to call it quits in his gun at 2200 fps as well. Therefore in his gun he would go no higher than 41.0 until this lot of powder runs out. I think that's wise.

The 42.0 grain charge was Johan's Do Not Exceed; for whatever reason Dave's rifle averaged slightly faster than mine with the same charge. Otherwise the two rifles were very close in velocity with many other loads using other powders. I think 39 grains would be a good place to stop for those loading to more standard but still useful velocities with the 220 Speer using 2520. It's a very good choice with the 220 Speer as it gives more room in the case for the deeper seated 220 with little compression.

A note: If you're gonna be foolish with loading, the 220 Speer is the bullet most likely to get you into trouble, especially with fast/medium rate powders that leave lots of room in the case for you to carelessly add too much. Beware.

Check headspacing in rifles that will use the top loads; rifles with greater headspace give increased case stretch on the first firing of any load, which will shorten case life. Warmer loads intensify this considerably even though pressures are acceptable for the 336 action. Form cases to chambers first without stretching to maximize case life. If headspace is generous but still safe this should be SOP with all handloads of factory power or above.

Using AA2460:

39.0 grains with the 200 Remington Core-Lokt gave 2190 fps average velocity.

Using the 180 Speer:

41.0 grains AA2460 2410 fps
42.0 grains AA 2460 2450 fps Johan's maximum recommended for 42,000.

These were on a cold 35-40 degree day like in deer season; on a warmer 90 plus degree day they gave 2500+ fps. That's plenty fast enough, and I personally would load to this level for cold weather use only. If it's hot out it ain't deer season or anything else season and you don't need to be going that fast. There's absolutely no point in it and to paraphrase Alan nothing would know the difference if you knocked 100 fps off that high figure. I feel a whole lot better about it myself loaded that way.

Hope that's a good start.

 

Thanks 35 Rem for all your hard work, flawless record keeping, and time

Do you have a suggested fire forming load?

 

Not really. Anything that has enough pressure to fully fill out the rounded factory case shoulders to the chamber can work, from fast shotgun powders to rifle powders. Reloder 7 is capable of generating full pressures with relatively low amounts of powder, or if you're really miserly you could use a fast shotgun powder. Try the upper end of the loads in the Lyman Cast Bullet manual.

More important is fireforming correctly to avoid case head stretch, especially in generous chambers. Seat the bullet out so that engraving force holds the case head against the breech (effectively headspacing on the bullet) or use a .375 expander to enlarge the case neck. Then, full length size carefully, with a backed off sizing die, turning down the die a fraction at a time (a small fraction, and I do mean small) until the case chambers with hopefully very minimal headspace.

Then load and shoot. Cases will conform to your chamber with minimal stretch. Many if not most rifles will not need this treatment, but if case life is short before head separations occur this step may be beneficial in your gun.

A Stony Point tool would be helpful in determining proper sizing die adjustment once properly formed cases are obtained, and will ensure you size adequately for proper chambering but no more than necessary.

There is no difference in case life between properly full length sized cases and neck sized ones.

 

35Rem, do you have any experience with the Lee Collet Dies in 35? I've been using them for several years, all my brass has been loaded at least 20 times, and I have yet to lose a case. In fact, it still looks new. My rifle was barely fired when I found it languishing in an Illinois pawnshop, and I'm guessing the headspace is close to perfect, but I think the Collet Dies are a big part of the great case life. Any thoughts?

BTW, my best accuracy results have been with BLC-2 (pretty good), IMR-4895 (very good) and Varget (astounding!)

Papajohn

 

Yes, I have them and like them very much, especially for the minimal sizing effort and the fact that they size very concentrically. I had a custom set made for my .25-20 also and it's really the bee's knee's for cast bullets, as you can regulate the amount of sizing needed to produce minimal deformation of the cast bullet. No M-die and the additional case working necessary is needed, just a very slight flare of the case mouth.

In my experience, when cases fail in the .35 Remington it isn't due to the fact that I am using any particular die versus another. These cases fail because they die from head separations, and neck die or collet die or full length die doesn't matter - they have the exact same life. Near as I could tell, cases stretch at about the same rate as well. I am assuming the proper use of the full length sizing die here, which would mean not setting the shoulder back excessively upon resizing.

The rifle itself is the weak link, even with mild loads. Some springing takes place when the rifle is fired, and the brass stretch that occurs is just above the expansion ring in the fired case. While loading at the range, I would often take a single case and see how many loadings I could get out of it and just what caused it to fail. In every instance, either the faint ring around the case could be seen just before it was to separate or I could feel a very obvious divot in the case with a sharpened bent coathanger wire. A bright light over your shoulder will also show this ring inside the case. Missing this ring or failing to look for it would result in extraction of the head of the case while the case body was left in the chamber. A brass bristle brush would get it out every time, but subjecting your chamber to the cutting effect of escaping gasses isn't a good thing to do more than very occasionally.

I sure don't recommend shooting a case until it croaks but it does give an indication of the safety of the load in a particular rifle. More pressure = more springing = shorter case life.

One of my .35's has more headspace than the others and gives notably shorter case life unless cases are formed to it and kept for use in that particular rifle only.

I think that the Lee Collet Die is one of the best ideas to come along in a very long while and I feel that it is demonstrably superior to almost any other type of neck die. I just cannot prove any advantage in case longevity with its use, but I am confident that the ammunition produced with it is as accurate as I can assemble. Whether my 336's are accurate enough to take advantage of its low runout numbers is another matter, but having ammunition with minimal runout sure doesn't hurt.

 

35, THANK you for the info, it confirms most of what I either suspected or already knew. I think my 336's chamber is close to perfect, this gun is a shining example of how good a Marlin can be when everything comes together. Wood-to-metal fit is exemplary, the blueing is even and smooth, and it shoots better than a levergun allegedly can, as evidenced by this photo. The group on the left was shot with my 336C, 3 shots at 50 yards, under perfect conditions, with the barrel given time to cool, and a handload crafted as carefully as I know how.

Sorry for the blurry picture, but you get the idea. I wish I could shoot with my camera the way I do with my 35 Remmy!

Back to the collet dies, when I use them for neck-sizing I resize once, turn the case 120 degrees, then do it again. I think it helps remove any irregularities in the neck, and makes it as concentric as it can be. Good powders and bullets help, this target explains why I dote so much on the 180-grain Speer SP!

Again, thanks for the input. I know we're often preaching to the choir, but the world needs to know that given good ammo and careful handling, these rifles can SHOOT! 8)

Papajohn

 

Wow. Good shooting. I don't think I can beat that but mine's pretty respectable. How's that at 100?

My newer .35 is darn tight as well. It's a better assembled gun in a lot of ways than my 80's model is.

 

That rifle averages a little over an inch at 100 so far, but I think it's more my fault than the gun's, I just don't see very well past 50 yards.

My 35 was made in '03, and shoots pretty good for an obsolete Micro-groove! 8) Mebbe them Engineers at Marlin DO know sumthin about making Barrels!

PJ