The only load data I have handy is 20 grains of IMR-3031, good for 1800 fps. It's a fairly obscure caliber, and a somewhat obscure powder, so data may be hard to come by. But you might be able to find something similar, and extrapolate, starting on the low side. As bulky as 5744 is, it would be hard to overload it by much. Just a guess, but 60% load density might be a good place to start with such a heavy bullet.

35Remington, you ever played with this one?

 

Interesting topic - anxious to hear if anyone has good data. I recently inherited an old Marlin 1893 takedown in 25-36 that has probably not been shot in 50 years. My grandfather used to shoot 25-35 Win ammo in it (Rem 117g RN), and I have a couple of old boxes of this ammo, but I'm only 50% convinced it's a safe practice. My understanding is the 25-36 has a slightly longer case, but the differences are subtle and pressures for both are in the 30-30 class. That said, I reference the 25-35 because it's a less obscure caliber and you might find data whose MIN loads could be a place to start. The 25-35 is even listed in the Accurate #2 manual, but no data for 5744 (2495, 2520, 2700, and 4350 only).

If you want to play with XMR-5744, an article in RifleShooter Jan/Feb 2006 indicates 40% load density from the base of a seated bullet was a safe practice across the board for reduced loads, and some emails with AA ballistician Johan Loubser confirms this. 5744 has a good reputation with cast bullets, and I've played with it for light loads with moderate success, but I've got very limited experience with it for stouter loads (22-250 or 375 Win only). I'm not sure where a reasonable max would be with 5744 (the 40% was for reduced loads), but in spite of bulkiness, being a fast rifle powder, I'd be very cautious approaching high load densities.

 

wvufan, my Cartridges of the World (#11) agrees with your assessments of the 25-35 and 25-36, and also states, "The two are similar but not interchangeable, although the 25-35 can be fired in the slightly longer 25-36 chamber. "

Data for the 25-35 seems to be substantially (20%) higher regardling powder volume, though both are said to operate in the same pressure range as the 30-30. Were it me with an unknown rifle and looking for a starting point, I think I'd begin with light bullets, just to keep pressures low.

 

When I reformed the cases for the 25/36 I tried 30/30, 32 special & 38/55. They
were all too short. Only the 32/40 was long enough to work & I had to trim it
down. I was thinking of a starting load of 13 grains of AA5744 & the 117 gr cast
bullet with a GC. I have tried 20 of IMR3031 & thee same bullet however it was not an accurate load.

 

PJ, nope, never have. A friend is going to have my old 25-20 Contender carbine barrel converted to 25 Remington with a rim (25-35 brass chambered in this will form to 25 Remington rimmed) which has slightly more capacity than a 25-35, but that's about as close as I'm gonna get.

 

Very interesting thread. I have no experience with AA5744 but I have reformed .32-40 brass to .25-36" Marlin and agree with you Jorgy that the other cartridges based on the .38-55" Ballard case ( note I refuse to call it Winchester) are all too short with the theoretical disadvantage of cutting chamber rings. The correct length for the .25-36" Marlin is 2.13" which is what the .32-40" Ballard and Marlin case is. There is really very little to trim off in the trim die after necking the .32-40" case down. My own rifle was fortunately well under bore and slugged to .252" so that I fire the Lyman 100 grain flat nose,gas checked bullet, sized to .258" in a custom Lee sizing die,and on rare occasions the 117 grain Hornady jacketed round point. The big problem with this jacketed bullet is the position of the factory crimp in the 1893 Marlin. The overall length is too long for the shell,if crimped in the factory groove, to cycle correctly through the action from the magazine. The overall length must not exceed 2.50", and I have had good success with cutting new crimp rings with a crimp cutter put out by the CH Tool and Die Co. It's a very simple hand held machine to use. Corbin make one too I believe but I have no experience with it. It's more expensive. I am not going to fire any more .25-35" Winchester shells through my own rifle. The ones I did fire flowed horrendously in my chamber producing obvious incipient case separation rings but I was fortunate and none actually blew. Certainly the cases were well beyond any thought of reloading. The Winchester case is significantly shorter. As for powders I have used Unique around the 7.0 grain mark under either of the two bullets mentioned for a chronographed speed under the cast bullet of 1425 fps and a 50 yard group of 1 1/4". I have used Alliant's 2400 around the 9.0 grain mark for a speed of 1450 fps and a 3/4" group at the same range, off a sandbag. Going up to 10.0 grains opened up my groups to 2" and the speed went to 1590 fps. I'm using a polyester filler in all my cases but I'm not certain it makes a lot of difference. Any attempt to drive a bullet in my own rifle much beyond 1600 fps whether it's cast or jacketed opens up the group to the extent you could drive a truck through. In fact I think some of the cast bullets strip and tumble in spite of a quench hardened Lyman No.2 type alloy. Mind you,the bore in my rifle is not the best and that's why I'm thankful for the underbore diameter when I slugged it. If I keep things along blackpowder speeds of under 1500 fps all is well. I've had fun. You might be interested in another point re expanding the case neck for cast bullets. R.C.B.S. don't make a three die cowboy action set for this calibre so what I have done is to use the inexpensive 'Universal Case Expanding Die' put out by Lee. Whilst this die chamfers the case very well to accept the bullet base of your choice it doesn't actually expand the neck. I'm not sure it actually matters as it concerns either pressures or accuracy. What I tried out were batches of shells that I expanded the necks of using the expander die from my .25-20" cowboy action die set and belling the case mouth with the Lee 'expander' die. I didn't notice any difference at all between the unexpanded and expanded cartridges in terms of pressure or accuracy. Obviously, however, the belling of the case mouth is a must to accept the base of the cast bullet. Just some thoughts.