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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

it has probably been debated over and over again here on this board, but it seems that either Marlin or XS Systems seem to have problems with their tolerances.

I mounted a Weaver scout scope in Leupold QRW rings, and even at 25yds had trouble to get it sighted in. I had to crank the elevation dial all the way up ( almost out of the turret ) and the shots went underneath the black rings still.

If I held over the top of the black and with some guesswork I got hits in the bullseye.

The funny thing was............after I took the scope off and went with the ghost ring sights, I could get better accuracy at 25yds than with the scope.

Shimming the scope in its rings is something I don't like.

I like my set-up the way it is, but not getting enough elevation makes me wonder if the XS Lever Rail is sloped, or the rear sight dovetail sits a little too low on the barrel.

Btw, the scope was NIB, as well as all the other parts.

I emailed XS Systems tonight, to see what kind of solution they can come up with.


This almost seems to fall in line with the issues that others on here have with their 1895 SBL's.



Regards,

Pete
 

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Just went through this with my GBL.

I used the included shims for my XS lever rail by mounting them in the middle of the rail for my forward scout scope. Raising the rear got me on target.

I measured the shims with a caliper and relieved material from the underside of the front of the rail back to the front mounting hole equaling the shim height.

Back to the range and it was still dialed in.

See these threads:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,84648.0.html

and

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,84847.0.html

Appears to be a rather consistant issue of late.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
So, if I want to get more elevation, I need to elevate the middle of the rail ? Hmmmmmm................ I always thought I need to shim the front of the rail.

I could be wrong though.

Help me on this one.............what is actually so "off" regarding tolerances ? The gun or the rail ?


Pete
 

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To raise the POI, you need to elevate the rear - scope or sight.

In my case, I have a scout scope, they mount forward, so I had to raise the rear of the scope and that correlated to the middle mount point on my lever rail.

For a regular scope mounted traditionally, raise the rear most mounting point.

If your iron sights work, the mount would most likely be the culprit.

Something - I don't know what - changed and the later Marlins seem to be iffy with rail mounts.

Do a search and you'll find many more examples than mine.

Ultimately I ground down the front of my rail system by the amount of the shims I used to correct it originally.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Eli, my gun was made in 2009 ( the s/n starts with 91 ) . Other than the issue with the rail, it is a fine gun. I was amazed by the accuracy I got the 1st time out. I never shot it over the factory sights. After I got mine in mid-Dec. of 2010, I was impressed by the good quality, fit and finish.

The XS Lever Rail also went on right away, and I was getting better accuracy over the ghost ring sight than with the scout scope. I'm sure that there was nothing wrong with the scope either, as it was NIB. The Leupold QRW rings were also new.

I own a few other rifles / carbines with a scope rail, and it was just throw the scope on, tighten the rings onto the rail, and go hitting the target.

The XS rail is the first one causing such issues.



Thanks so far,


Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I still got an old Tasco 3-9x40mm laying around. Maybe I'll put my spare set of Leupold QRW rings on it and give that combo a try.

As the Tasco has got shorter eye relief, I need to mount it further back, but I'm not shooting those sledgehammer loads anyways.



Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I wonder if the forward mounted scout rail has the same issues.

Not that I want to install one, as I like the current one much better with the ghost ring sights.

( I'm a big fan of military rifles , and a lot of them got peep sights ) .


Pete
 

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moonbat60 said:
No, my peep sight was dead on.
That is interesting.

With the factory sights, I can see it shooting good and then going to hell with the rail scope. The factory sights being mounted on the barrel and then by adding the rail you include the receiver and thus can put things on a different plain (as in a crooked barrel). But, if your receiver mounted peep shot well, then it certainly does leave one to think the rail or scope has issues...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I like the XS sight rail for it extended the sight radius considerably. Next time I'll give it a shot with the Tasco scope.

I believe that it can't be the Leupold QRW rings that I'm using, as I got them on other scopes as well.
 

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moonbat60 – if’in I was a betting man :D I’d guess it to be the rail, why else would XS be supplying shims with it?? :)
 

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I wonder if it could be in the way it attaches on the dovetail post? Those dovetails have some variances and even barrel OD diameters seem to have differences over the years. On my 1894 which I just got back from having it rebarreled from a 44 mag to a 45 Colt with an older style Micro Groove Marlin factory barrel, when I put the XS Lever scout back on the POI was almost in the dirt beneath the target. This was using the same scope as when the gun was a 44. I was able to adjust it out, but it was way off from the 44mag barrel.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Now that's interesting, eaglesnest. So the fault might not lie with XS rails only, it could also be ( excessive ) tolerances on the gun makers side. I guess a level won't help me enough...............

Maybe I just leave it unscoped, though I'd really like to run my GG up to longer distances than 25yds or 50yds.



Thanks,

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I wonder if those shorter scout scope rails also got the same issues. Anything known about that ?


Thx,

Pete
 

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moonbat60 said:
I wonder if those shorter scout scope rails also got the same issues. Anything known about that ?


Thx,

Pete
I have only had my XS Scout Mount on two 444's - a 444SS and XLR, and it worked fine on both with no shims.
 

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moonbat60 said:
I wonder if those shorter scout scope rails also got the same issues. Anything known about that ?


Thx,

Pete
That is what I have, the short scout scope XS mount. Before I changed my barrel out I could pull the scope off, and put it back and it would be dialed in. The only thing I did was change to a Marlin factory 45 Colt barrel, probably made in the early 90's, put the same mount back on, same mounting dovetail piece, same scope to the same receiver and it shot over a foot low @ 50 yds. Over on the rimfire section there is a thread about the different OD's on various model 39's over the years. There is quite a variance! Then there is the barrel taper, and that was all over the place on the 39's as well. It really isn't Marlin's fault, these guns were meant to have the scope mounted on the receiver.. I have no idea if there is different OD barrels, or tapered differently from barrel to barrel or year to year for 1894's or 1895's like the 39a's are but it could be and if so it is no wonder the XS rails are having some difficulty. If it is the case it would seem that a better solution than shims would be to have different dovetail mounts that would sit the rail higher or lower at the front. It would be a cleaner install I would think, but also open a new level of skill to install, maybe a smith would be required for some..
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I've shimmed right now the rear screws of the rail with a .03" plastic shims. That was not even enough to get it with the help of a boresighter to center.


The dot is still too low. That means I still need more elevation ( thicker shims ), probably .05 to .06 as a wild guess, to get the back part of the rail high enough to have at least a little range of elevation.

I guess I'm going to hit a home improvement store tomorrow.



Pete
 
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