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Discussion Starter #1
just now looking throughout the history of Russian and German sniper scopes. .. the quality wasent there . not like even the cheaper scopes we have today.
can you imagine ? what some of those Soviet women could have done withtodays basic hunting/deer rifles ?
and say ? just a good simple straight six Leupold..
just thinking outloud.
 

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You are right. They were dam good shooters ! Even Vietnam era snipers basically were using either a Rem 700 or a Win 70 hunting rifle with a Redfield scope.
 

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yep .. heck ? my pops old Winchester ranger with a Leupold straight six in 30o6 woulda been the cats meow going back in time.
will we ever fight a war like that again ? i dont know . I'm afraid the next war will be drones and missiles.
 

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Some test results with vintage sniper rifles and ammo fired at 200 yards:

First, one of the ersatz-snipers put together by Century Arms using a Finnish M39 rifle arsenal rebuilt in 1968 with a post-war PU scope and mount of the same type used on the PK machinegun.

Finn-39sniper-ad.jpg

The Finns never used the PU scope, but did use some PEs. The rifle shoots BETTER than my 03A4 Springfield, a minute-of-angle grouper with handloaded Sierra match bullets, of proper .311" diameter which fit its bore.

Results average five consecutive 5-shot groups fired off sandbags at TWO HUNDRED (200) yards using 2.5X Soviet PU scope and post reticle:

---------------------------------------------------Smallest----------Largest---------Average

Remington 180-gr. SPCL .310" (.303 British bullet), 46 grs. IMR4064, Norma Case, Rem. 9-1/2 primer
------------------------------------------------------2.3---------------4.13-------------3.07

Sierra 174 MK HPBT .311", 47 grs. IMR4064, Norma case, Rem. 9-1/2 primer
------------------------------------------------------1.50--------------2.50-------------1.85


Next, a WWII-era Remington 03A4, Weaver scope and period ammo from sandbags at 200 yards:

View attachment 126430


_____________________________Avg. of six 5-shot groups at 200 yards*
Ammunition______________Smallest_____Largest_____Average__

Ball M1 174-gr. FA34_________2.4________5.0________4.5
Ball M2 152-gr. DM42________3.9________6.3________4.9
APM2, 168-gr. LC43__________4.1________6.9________5.5
M72 174-gr. LC65NM_________1.6 ________5.3_______3.9

This rifle and the WW2 ammo were stored raised off the concrete floor on pallets in the basement of a CBI vet’s residence located just off-post near Ft. Belvoir, VA where they had been placed in 1946. Rifle had been dipped in melted cosmolene and wrapped in a shelter half. The Weaver scope and rings had been removed from the rifle and tightly wrapped in waxed paper. Rifle and scope were then inserted into a paratroop drop case laid across two foot lockers containing his ammo, .45 pistol helmet and web gear. After cleaning the rifle and mounting scope, tightening the right windage screw on the Redfield base (the left screw was staked solid) the rifle had good 200-yard sight dope on it, needing no adjustment. The owner moved into assisted living, taking his .45 pistol and M3 trench knife with him.

There were no misfires, hangfires or other failures with any of the ammunition tested. The velocity of the FA 1934 Ball M1 ammunition was a bit below specifications as published by Hatcher, but its performance was otherwise normal. The other ammunitions produced velocities typical of published specifications for their type, with normal ballistic uniformity and accuracy.

*Ammunitions were fired in rotation without cleaning. Each ten-shot series started with a fouled, cold barrel, firing the first 5-round target in slow fire cadence in an elapsed time of approximately 3 minutes, being followed immediately by a second 5-shot group fired from the warm barrel in rapid-fire cadence of about 30 seconds. After each ten-shot series, the bolt was removed and a steel cleaning rod inserted into the bore as a heat-sink while we walked to the pits to pull, mark and reface targets. Upon returning from the pits the cleaning rod heat sink was removed and the rifle allowed to air cool to ambient temperature before the next ammunition in rotation was fired. This test sequence was repeated three times. The Lake City M72 1965 National Match ammunition used as a control was known to have produced a 1.9 inch Mean Radius at 600 yards during lot acceptance.

These results speak well for the quality of the ammunition, as well as the assembly of the rifle years ago by military armorers.
 

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We take fog proof internally adjusted scopes for granted.

Wasn't until the middle 1960s and later, when water proof and internal adjustments could be trustd to any extent.

Sadly the age is getting to the o rings and seals on some of the early classics, the Lyman Alaskan and similar. They look correct on the vintage guns though.
 

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yep .. heck ? my pops old Winchester ranger with a Leupold straight six in 30o6 woulda been the cats meow going back in time.
will we ever fight a war like that again ? i dont know . I'm afraid the next war will be drones and missiles.
I'm familiar with that Win 670 Ranger. I still have one with a Weaver 6X (old steel tube) scope. The Ranger was like the utility grade version of the Model 70----just like the Rem ADL. When you think about it the old WWII military guys had it rough in those days. They were only issued 100 rds of 30-06. The M1 was a 11 lbs rifle.
 
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