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Discussion Starter #1
Today, I took Lyman 173 grain 30-30 reloads with 4 different powder loads to test for accuracy. After the first Lyman mold being defective, :mad: I sent it back and got a different one. The old one would cast bullets that every 4 or fifth would hit the cardboard at 100 yards and not the target. Now the new one hits the target and now I get a good groups with some that are outside the target. :( What this tells me that the one out of the two mold cast good bullets. Next I will cast 20 each from each mold and keep them separate and test them separate as well to find out which mold is the good one.

The mold cast bullet weight at 184 grains with gas check using wheel weights. My best 7 shot groups with one flyer that did not hit the cardboard were with Varget loaded with 29 grains and a magnum primer. This powder I will test further and increase powder load next time. I used IMR SR4749, IMR 4227, AA5744 and Varget.

I plan on hunting wolf and mountain loin this year wish me luck. :)

I will post pictures next time. Got a bit hot out there, rifle was cooking and back home having a cold one right now.
 

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You have not given us enough information.
What rifle are you using?
Have you slugged the bore to find the groove diameter?
What diameter are the bullets before sizing?
What diameter are the bullets after sizing and the installation of the gas checks?
What lubrication are you using?
A few suggestions:
Shoot at 50 yards until your loads group well. That saves a lot of walking.
Sort bullets by sight and by weighing them.
The sizing die should take care of any diameter variations between the two mold cavities.
For hunting loads, don't waste your time with SR4749[sic] and IMR4227. They will not give the highest velocities, safely.
Varget would be the first powder choice, followed by A5744.
Trim your brass, so you will get uniform crimps.
Keep good notes so you can repeat what you did to produce a good group.
M.
 

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IF your rifle is "cooking", you are spinning your wheels. All you will prove is that the rifle will go bang reliably. You need to keep things under wraps when developing a load. It's different than the conditions in which you may hunt. Often a barrel will throw 3 or 4 bullets in reasonably the same place and by the time the 5th is ignited, the barrel has heated and throws the 5th somewhere else. Heat is not a friend to accuracy or even consistency. Years ago I tried load developing in the heat of summer, and what a mess of data I got into to. It was consistantly inconsistent. I had to learn about shade, ways to cool the barrel, how to shoot a string of shot slowly. It took more patience than I often had. Hence, I had to redo and redo the same loads to find a way to get some decent data.

Good luck on your project and keep us in the loop.

Jeff
NRA Life
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Pictured here are two targets with the one on the left using SR 4759. You can see the strays’ bullet holes into the bottom right of the target. I shot 7 rounds. The target on the upper right shows hits using 29 grains of Varget. I shot a total of seven shots with six hit holes shown and one uncounted for. To me that’s accurate enough, except the unknown flyer. I know that I was sighting in on the target and I was not that steady. I now know that I do have two different bullets that hit at different spot. To date I have shot a total of 200 rounds of cast and just know tunings it in. I figure another couple of hundred and I will have a cool shooting cast bullet. Those are at 100 yards. If I can get them to all hit at a hundred then look out Mr. Big Bad Wolf.

I size the bullet at .311 using Lee’s seizer and bullets drops .3105 to .311. Cases are trim to 2.032 and were once fired cases. The 336 Marlin rifle is micro grove barrel using a 3 X 9 Leupold scope.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sweetwater said:
IF your rifle is "cooking", you are spinning your wheels. All you will prove is that the rifle will go bang reliably. You need to keep things under wraps when developing a load. It's different than the conditions in which you may hunt.

Jeff
NRA Life
Jeff,

If you study the target to the left and see all the stray bullet holes, that's from a cold rifle. I hope to get more data this weekend. Love this hobby.

Bert
 

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I was refering to your description of your rifle cooking. Hot rifles and cold rifles are two very different elements. It is a great hobby
 

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Discussion Starter #10
kelbro said:
When do the flyers occur? Last shots? Random?

What lube are you using?

How tight do your gas checks fit?
I did not check the when the flyers occured, but happen with other powders used. The gas checks were tapped on to seat it, and sized them with the Lee die and using the Lee lube.

I am going to cast some more bullet, but this time I will keep an eye on bullets cast from front and rear mold to see if there is any differance between the both molds.

I am going through the possiblies of problems and addressing them one at time.

How's does your cast shoot at 100 yards?
 

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Mine shoot well enough. I did find that the lube can make a drastic difference and lube running out before the bullet exits can cause some strange things to happen to the bullet flight.

Do you see any signs of leading?

Can you weigh and/or measure the bullets dropped from each mold?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
kelbro said:
Mine shoot well enough. I did find that the lube can make a drastic difference and lube running out before the bullet exits can cause some strange things to happen to the bullet flight.

Do you see any signs of leading?

Can you weigh and/or measure the bullets dropped from each mold?
Kelbro,

No signs of leading. Clean barrel. I did weigh them, right at 184 grains with gas checks. I need more data and will double check the weight, and diameter on each mold.

I really feel good about using Varget but what bugs me is the unknow flyer. I hope to find out why. I will keep you posted after this weekend's shooting. If I don't get any more flyers, I am going to set the target at 150 yards to see how it shoots.

Bert
 

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Let us know. Another cause that I have found for those oddball, unexplained flyers is case neck tension. If one seats 'too easy' mark it with a sharpie or something and shoot it last.
 

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If the gas checks are seated impropely/seated crooked flyers can occur. The powder gases push on the base of the bullet unevenly.

Hip
 

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I agree with sweetwater 100% on this and another thing to consider is the cast bullets that you are making. I make and shoot cast bullets and for consistent accuracy you need to be, well consistent in everything you do in you casting process. I cast my bullets to within + or - 1 grain or less depending on the weight and by doing this I can be certain that I have no air bubbles in them and I weigh each and every one.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hipshot said:
If the gas checks are seated impropely/seated crooked flyers can occur. The powder gases push on the base of the bullet unevenly.

Hip
Hip,

You'er correct. That's the problem I had with the first mold and sent back to Lyman for a replacement. So far I am not completely sold on gas checks.

I also tried Hunter's cast bullets with no gas check and the accuracy was poor.
I know it's not my gun because I pulled out 170 Sierra's and shot a 6 round with excellent accuracy. Made me wonder why I was using cast bullets.

I am preping cases today. Too windy for my burner to heat the melting pot.

Bert
 

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blue today said:
I size the bullet at .311 using Lee’s seizer and bullets drops .3105 to .311. Cases are trim to 2.032 and were once fired cases. The 336 Marlin rifle is micro grove barrel using a 3 X 9 Leupold scope.
Would those measurements be before or after sizing? With a .311 sizer, the bullet from the mold should be .3115 or greater. If the mold casts smaller than that, you can vary the alloy and the heat to produce fatter bullets. After sizing, the diameter of the bullets ( measured above the gas check ) should be exactly the same. The sizing die should be touching the entire circumference of the bullet. When sizing, if the force needed to size a bullet is less the others, it is probably undersized.
Undersized bullets can cause flyer's.
Note: My lee .311 die sizes at .3115".
M.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
80hp said:
Would those measurements be before or after sizing? With a .311 sizer, the bullet from the mold should be .3115 or greater. If the mold casts smaller than that, you can vary the alloy and the heat to produce fatter bullets. After sizing, the diameter of the bullets ( measured above the gas check ) should be exactly the same. The sizing die should be touching the entire circumference of the bullet. When sizing, if the force needed to size a bullet is less the others, it is probably undersized.
Undersized bullets can cause flyer's.
Note: My lee .311 die sizes at .3115".
M.
Like I said bullet drops from .3105 to .311, a bit out of round at the seams. I am going to cast a new batch paying more attention to detail, like this.

Thanks 80
 

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Sounds like your molds need to be cleaned and the pins are not aligning the blocks properly, they might need to be extended out a tad. Running through a sizer will make the bullet straight and round but it should not be even noticeable "out of round" before sizing and a properly cast bullet should be able to be shot as is but sizing makes for better consistency.
 

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"So far I am not completely sold on gas checks."

I'm thinking your problem may not be the gas checks, but the bullet you're working with. :eek: case in point. My pet loads for the 30-30 with cast bullets use either the Lyman #311291 or the RCBS #30-180-FN. The Lyman bullet runs at 175 gr. and the RCBS 190 gr. in my alloy. Altogether, those two bullets have accounted for 17 deer. The one Lyman bullet that has not shot worth spit regardles of how I load it is their #31141 now number #311041 IIRC. I got generally the same results as yours with #31141. I have two Lyman Molds and a clone by NEI and none of them will shoot worth spit in any of my .30 caliber rifles. Any other mold that might be suitable for use in a 30-30 has shot with more than acceptable results.
Many others have said they got great results with that bullet but in better than 25 years of trying off and on, I still haven't been able to get them to shoot into any semblance of a group.
At this point I'm only guessing as you didn't give a mold number for me to work with.
FWIW, I size my bullets to .310" and they shoot just fine with the exception of #31141.
Paul B.
 
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