Why I Stress Case Inspection! (04-04-09)
81 - 96 of 96 Posts
Joined
·
18,026 Posts
I'm glad to see this thread has survived, and is still getting views. I still use the same processes for inspecting brass, and while I still have some anomalies now and then, 99+% of my rounds fire just fine. There have been some bad batches of primers here and there, but careful examination of the brass you're reloading will eliminate most of the problems you can encounter.
Joined
·
27 Posts
This is for the most part why I like doing everything on a single stage....I do us a Dillon sometimes but I get some rejects..mostly when I don't pay attention....my fault not the machine...single stage I can do a pretty good job...just takes more time...
Joined
·
801 Posts
I'm also wary of using progressive presses. Working too quickly can be very dangerous in this hobby...too easy to miss something. I go over each of my charged cases with a flashlight to ensure that powder is present, and that no case has an anomalous charge (either low or high). I also cycle some ammunition through a rifle after loading it to catch any chambering problems, and make corrections if necessary. Other than one or two squib loads in shotshells (squibs in a smoothbore are moderately annoying, but come out without excessive effort, my reloading difficulties have been limited to hard chambering (die problem) and a couple of bad primers.
Joined
·
191 Posts
The use of Progressive presses don't cause reloading mistakes, but they do enable a user to make mistakes at a much faster clip. I once tried to design a "idiot proof" reloading process, but I failed totally. That's because nature adapts and soon builds itself a better idiot immune from proofing........
Joined
·
12 Posts
Good thread. Thanks. Sometimes close inspection isn’t necessary as is shown in the pic.
![E5E0EC82-0DCA-4FF7-845E-05B61FE9FB0B.jpeg]()
It’s a 25-20 case that just finally had enough. In this case the neck went with the bullet. Almost same hole. Ended up going home for closer inspection to figure out where the neck went. I have a lot of 25-20 brass with probably ten different brands. They are all getting older and every time I shoot I lose 3 or 4 to cracks somewhere on the case, some big and some small. So, yes, case inspection is important. I have learned over the years that if a case neck is damaged during reloading and it you are tempted to shoot it because it doesn’t look that bad, then it probably isn’t going to shoot very well and you might as well throw the case away. The safety and quest for accuracy isn’t worth the potential trouble.
It’s a 25-20 case that just finally had enough. In this case the neck went with the bullet. Almost same hole. Ended up going home for closer inspection to figure out where the neck went. I have a lot of 25-20 brass with probably ten different brands. They are all getting older and every time I shoot I lose 3 or 4 to cracks somewhere on the case, some big and some small. So, yes, case inspection is important. I have learned over the years that if a case neck is damaged during reloading and it you are tempted to shoot it because it doesn’t look that bad, then it probably isn’t going to shoot very well and you might as well throw the case away. The safety and quest for accuracy isn’t worth the potential trouble.
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
I started reloading in 1974 for my brand spanking new Marlin .30-30, with a Lee set, the plastic dippers and a wooden mallet I turned on the lathe in shop class. Since then I've made almost every mistake possible. I'm still learning.
My brass cleaner solution is stainless steel media, a gallon of water, a squirt of dish soap and a tablespoon of LemiShine. The cleaned brass is sparkling and goes into a separator. Then put them in a metal pan and set them in the sun. The brass is always clean and easy to check for any damage. I've never found a stainless pin in the cases after I run them through the separator. I always look.
After reloading anything, I weigh the completed cartridge, any variation of over .2 grains is set aside and everything except the powder recycled. I'm never in a big hurry for anything much, excepting the supper table, so I don't mind the few outliers. I don't reload max rounds (unlike my younger days) and I try to get an accurate load, but I'm not trying for one big hole down range, because I hunt with my rifles, so sub-minute of deer at 150 is my goal. About a 3inch group at the target.
That's just me though.
My brass cleaner solution is stainless steel media, a gallon of water, a squirt of dish soap and a tablespoon of LemiShine. The cleaned brass is sparkling and goes into a separator. Then put them in a metal pan and set them in the sun. The brass is always clean and easy to check for any damage. I've never found a stainless pin in the cases after I run them through the separator. I always look.
After reloading anything, I weigh the completed cartridge, any variation of over .2 grains is set aside and everything except the powder recycled. I'm never in a big hurry for anything much, excepting the supper table, so I don't mind the few outliers. I don't reload max rounds (unlike my younger days) and I try to get an accurate load, but I'm not trying for one big hole down range, because I hunt with my rifles, so sub-minute of deer at 150 is my goal. About a 3inch group at the target.
That's just me though.
Joined
·
6,347 Posts
Well written, Kevin.M - I'll bet we've all made mistakes/blunders or just plain done stuff that we think are unique to us! I guess that's where I see the difference between being a reloader and being a handloader. A reloader takes a recipe from a book and it goes bang and they are happy. A handloader wants to know the why, the howcome, and all that not just because so-and-so said so.
Example #1: "6.5X55 Swede is unique and can't be made from others", circa 1959. fast forward to 2005. I had long ago swapped my surplus 6.5 Swede for a guitar that I had to have and now had acquired a Ruger 77 MkII 6.5X55Swede. I had literally tons of 30-06 brass, so I chucked my Herter's 6.5 sizing die in my Herter's Super C press. Lathered up an '06 case with Imperial Sizing Wax, and loaded it into the press. Came out pretty as a picture, with a "long" neck" which promply got trimmed. I created a dummy round with this case and a 140gr Sierra and loaded it in the magazine. It fit and I moved the bolt forward slowly, it picked up the rim and slid it into the chamber. I closed the handle and busted another myth! I made 5 more, loaded them with primer, powder and aforementioned 140gr Sierra and went to the range. 5 shots, nice little group, nothing amiss, no cracks, nothing gone wrong. Success...
Exmple #2: "that short barrel needs a fast powder" circa 1963. Subject rifle is a Persian Carbine 8X57mm circa 1949 18" barrel. Somewhere in the late 70's, I had gotten tired of the lack luster performance from this rifle and its questionable accuracy. Somedays a couple inches, somedays a foot or more. I tried shims under the receiver near the bolts. I tried different seating depths, I tried different bullet weights and profiles, I tried different primers. One night, researching, I stumbled on an article about what happens when your sizing die is out of spec. Light bulb! Next morning, I purchased a spanky new RCBS sizing die and the inconsistencies went away, solid 1.5" or less, everytime. Cool, now what's up with this lack of velocity. I just wasn't buying the 700fps velocity loss for the 23" barrel in the data to my 18" barrel. So I went fishing. Stuff I found was: IMR 4198 is erratic in this rifle IMR4227 can blow the primers right out of the pockets, these fast powders were dangerous in this rifle, this rifle is far stronger than I am. Sierra Labs told me these pressures were crowding 80Kpsi and made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. I'll not quote the charges, but I'll never forget them! Further research revealed that the case capacity of my 8X57 was not far off of an 8mm06 as I was using very nearly the same OAL. The pressures of the 8mm06 data that I had was lower than what I wanted also (I was in my early 30's), so I poked around and getting geared up for a moose hunt in 1984, I decided a 200gr bullet was in order. Nosler had just come out with a .323 200gr Partition and I was sold. At $27/50, I needed something else to work up a load with so chose the 200gr Speer Spitzer as being the cheap alternative. I pulled several loads from the 8mm06 data with each of the powders I had on hand. IMR4350(too slow), IMR4320(borderline), IMR3031(old standby), H414(new to me) and BallC2(never had found a niche for it). All the data given gave close to 2400fps +/- 50fps in a 23" barrel 8mm06. Fired my rounds at my range, slowly, carefully, listening for anything out of norm. The BallC2 gave the best performance with the Speers and fortunately did the same with the Noslers. Years later, I bought a Chrony and that load comes in just a touch over 2400fps in my Persian Carbine at 9000ft elevation. It has been my wonder load here in Wyoming. Totally dependable. Interesting enough, My 150gr Sierras(antelope) and 175gr Sierras(Mule Deer) all hit in the same 1.5" circle and these 200gr Noslers make the same 1.5" circle an inch lower, so no real sight adjustments across the board. I used to want an 8mm06 (rechamber my carbine) but this worked so well, that I never bothered. Do I love these short barrels, and busting myths!
Example #1: "6.5X55 Swede is unique and can't be made from others", circa 1959. fast forward to 2005. I had long ago swapped my surplus 6.5 Swede for a guitar that I had to have and now had acquired a Ruger 77 MkII 6.5X55Swede. I had literally tons of 30-06 brass, so I chucked my Herter's 6.5 sizing die in my Herter's Super C press. Lathered up an '06 case with Imperial Sizing Wax, and loaded it into the press. Came out pretty as a picture, with a "long" neck" which promply got trimmed. I created a dummy round with this case and a 140gr Sierra and loaded it in the magazine. It fit and I moved the bolt forward slowly, it picked up the rim and slid it into the chamber. I closed the handle and busted another myth! I made 5 more, loaded them with primer, powder and aforementioned 140gr Sierra and went to the range. 5 shots, nice little group, nothing amiss, no cracks, nothing gone wrong. Success...
Exmple #2: "that short barrel needs a fast powder" circa 1963. Subject rifle is a Persian Carbine 8X57mm circa 1949 18" barrel. Somewhere in the late 70's, I had gotten tired of the lack luster performance from this rifle and its questionable accuracy. Somedays a couple inches, somedays a foot or more. I tried shims under the receiver near the bolts. I tried different seating depths, I tried different bullet weights and profiles, I tried different primers. One night, researching, I stumbled on an article about what happens when your sizing die is out of spec. Light bulb! Next morning, I purchased a spanky new RCBS sizing die and the inconsistencies went away, solid 1.5" or less, everytime. Cool, now what's up with this lack of velocity. I just wasn't buying the 700fps velocity loss for the 23" barrel in the data to my 18" barrel. So I went fishing. Stuff I found was: IMR 4198 is erratic in this rifle IMR4227 can blow the primers right out of the pockets, these fast powders were dangerous in this rifle, this rifle is far stronger than I am. Sierra Labs told me these pressures were crowding 80Kpsi and made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. I'll not quote the charges, but I'll never forget them! Further research revealed that the case capacity of my 8X57 was not far off of an 8mm06 as I was using very nearly the same OAL. The pressures of the 8mm06 data that I had was lower than what I wanted also (I was in my early 30's), so I poked around and getting geared up for a moose hunt in 1984, I decided a 200gr bullet was in order. Nosler had just come out with a .323 200gr Partition and I was sold. At $27/50, I needed something else to work up a load with so chose the 200gr Speer Spitzer as being the cheap alternative. I pulled several loads from the 8mm06 data with each of the powders I had on hand. IMR4350(too slow), IMR4320(borderline), IMR3031(old standby), H414(new to me) and BallC2(never had found a niche for it). All the data given gave close to 2400fps +/- 50fps in a 23" barrel 8mm06. Fired my rounds at my range, slowly, carefully, listening for anything out of norm. The BallC2 gave the best performance with the Speers and fortunately did the same with the Noslers. Years later, I bought a Chrony and that load comes in just a touch over 2400fps in my Persian Carbine at 9000ft elevation. It has been my wonder load here in Wyoming. Totally dependable. Interesting enough, My 150gr Sierras(antelope) and 175gr Sierras(Mule Deer) all hit in the same 1.5" circle and these 200gr Noslers make the same 1.5" circle an inch lower, so no real sight adjustments across the board. I used to want an 8mm06 (rechamber my carbine) but this worked so well, that I never bothered. Do I love these short barrels, and busting myths!
Joined
·
8,007 Posts
Weighing pistol rounds after reloading to find mistakes does not work too well. The variation in case weight and bullet weight is larger than the variation of power weight. The heaviest bullet and heaviest case can weigh more than the lightest case, lightest bullet, and double charge.
I tried a very detailed QA of 380 acp reloads by weighing them and taking the outliers apart. The outliers all had the correct amount of powder. The QA'd rounds were loaded with 2.8 grains of Titegroup.
![820650]()
The x axis is round weight in grains, the y axis is round count.
I have not tried weighing and verifying rifle rounds.
I tried a very detailed QA of 380 acp reloads by weighing them and taking the outliers apart. The outliers all had the correct amount of powder. The QA'd rounds were loaded with 2.8 grains of Titegroup.
The x axis is round weight in grains, the y axis is round count.
I have not tried weighing and verifying rifle rounds.
Joined
·
18,026 Posts
Walnut69, what makes it even scarier is that there are now thousands, if not millions of new reloaders who have little concept of what reloading is about. All they know is that they need ammo, and this is how to get it. So they'll buy a pound of whatever powder, get some brass and primers, and when the case is "prepped", they'll mash a bullet on top and call it good, as long as it fits in the chamber. I was always wary of shooting near reloaders of unknown background, now I'm just flat terrified!
Joined
·
16,786 Posts
Hey PJ,
Some time back (whilst still involved with USPSA) I was "skeered" whilst RO'ing fellows with 38 Super Major, and more recently (since they lowered the power factor) "Major 9"!
These are all EXPERIENCE RELOADERS using the BEST of EQUIPMENT....... Have seen more than a couple come "unglued" (and when RO'ing, one is "in the line of fire")....
Every so often, a PIN GUN would go at one of the PIN MATCHES.... ..but nothing like a "MAJOR 9" or a "MAJOR 38 SUPER"!
Even FACTORY is no guarantee. Guess it was 25 or so years back? Vadalia, Ohio the ATA Nationals....Several gentlemen from our Club attended. At that event, all ammo is supplied. They used AA's that year. Two of our guys blew up pricey trap guns...as did quite a few attendees...
Took a while, and some legal fees, but Winchester eventually made good....
Just can not be too careful....(EYE PROTECTION is always a GOOD THING!!)
Later, Mark
Was at a friends house. He was showing me his Dillon 550 reloading press setup he'd gotten and was reloading 223 Even though I hadn't reloaded, I stopped him and asked him if he was checking his rounds every so often, he asked "why, everything is setup correctly." So I had him throw a bullet, a primer and a case on the scale to get a ballpark weight, then had him pick some rounds at random. He got a shock when one of the rounds had a half charge of powder. So he went back through and found 80 rounds with the same issue. He did some investigation and found a piece on the powder charger that wasn't moving all the way.
Then he said, "well this could be shot as an underpowered load." That led into a long discussion about squib loads as the charge was well below the minimum load listed, possible cycling issues from reduced pressure, etc. So he went through all of his rounds and made sure he caught all of the rounds with problems.
Because I would like to do some reloading and he's willing to let me come over and use the single stage press he has on his bench, as being a newbie, I wanted to take my time and double check EVERYTHING. Much easier on a single stage.
I'd been spending some time here, on youtube, and reading. Thank God for all the good information, as it helped avoid a potential disaster.
This incident has made him slow down and be more conservative. My take with him was, "So what if people say you can hit 500 rounds an hour with this press, you aren't in this for a race. Are you really going to care if you only hit 300 rnds an hour since this is a past time, not a business?" He now throws every 10th round on a scale and visually checks everything on that round. This helped him catch an issue with the primer seating that occurred and only affected about 4 rounds before he caught it.
The one thing I've really had pounded into to me from reading on this site is that when it comes to reloading, patience is not a virtue, its an absolute necessity.
Hmm think I'll also post this as it's own topic.
Then he said, "well this could be shot as an underpowered load." That led into a long discussion about squib loads as the charge was well below the minimum load listed, possible cycling issues from reduced pressure, etc. So he went through all of his rounds and made sure he caught all of the rounds with problems.
Because I would like to do some reloading and he's willing to let me come over and use the single stage press he has on his bench, as being a newbie, I wanted to take my time and double check EVERYTHING. Much easier on a single stage.
I'd been spending some time here, on youtube, and reading. Thank God for all the good information, as it helped avoid a potential disaster.
This incident has made him slow down and be more conservative. My take with him was, "So what if people say you can hit 500 rounds an hour with this press, you aren't in this for a race. Are you really going to care if you only hit 300 rnds an hour since this is a past time, not a business?" He now throws every 10th round on a scale and visually checks everything on that round. This helped him catch an issue with the primer seating that occurred and only affected about 4 rounds before he caught it.
The one thing I've really had pounded into to me from reading on this site is that when it comes to reloading, patience is not a virtue, its an absolute necessity.
Hmm think I'll also post this as it's own topic.
81 - 96 of 96 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!