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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just curious.

I love compact bolt guns. Youth models, Sub compact bolt actions. They have plenty of accuracy, power, and performance. What they lack is unnecessary weight and (usually) recoil. Most of em are in calibers like .243, .260, 7mm-08 and .308. A few of the newer ones are in short mag calibers, but most of em are in short action calibers in the .308 family, and are of moderate recoil.

These guns carry well, and frankly, shoot more accurately than I can in the field. They'll kill deer as far as I have business shooting. They swing around well if you have to take a left hand shot at a close range deer in a climbing stand. They don't weigh you down slogging through the swamps, briars, and cut downs. They carry about like BB guns, but hit like, well, deer rifles if you want to know the truth.

Why would anyone want to hunt with a full sized deer rifle, let alone a 'target rifle'?

PS-while I fault them for their looks, the Remington 600 Mohawk fits into this family as well.
 

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You'll never convince me that a barrel shorter than 20" is a good thing, and in a bolt gun, I want 22" to 24" depending on the caliber.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Halwg said:
You'll never convince me that a barrel shorter than 20" is a good thing, and in a bolt gun, I want 22" to 24" depending on the caliber.
If I'm taking shots in field conditions, with a scope, at less than 400 yards, you'll never convince me that I need a heavy barrel, or a 'full length' barrel.

I've hunted for years with a pencil tube .243. I have a very nice (very heavy) Remington 700 Sendero. It is an absolute tack driver. With a very expensive jewell trigger, and the most expensive scope I own. Yet the day I had opportunity to take the longest shot of my hunting career, I happened to have the little Model 7 with me. In .243 no less. Not enough gun. Not a long range rifle, I thought. Not enough scope on top for longer work.

I hadn't made meat all season. I wanted a deer. When the one at 300 reappeared even farther away, I figured 350. I held a little high. It was further. Almost 400 yards. It ran less than 15 yards. No, it wasn't windy. Yes, it was in full day light (which helps a lot). But it was only a fixed 6x scope and 95 grain bullet. You don't need a darned 24" .30-06 to kill deer, though I was raised to believe you did. You don't need a 15x scope. Nor a target barrel. You just need to know your gun, and how to shoot.
 

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I have a Model 7 synthetic, but with a fast twist 22-250 Ackley barrel, 24" in length. I like longer barrels for the handling qualities, but I'm tall. I do have Tanker Garand, a 336RC, a 18.5" bbl 1895 and a 18.5" 35 Whelen. I do my close in hunting with the shorties, but I like the longer barrels on my precision shooters, I just seem to be able to hit better with them.
 

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I have a Remington Model 7 stainless synthetic in 7mm08 with a 20" barrel and Winchester Model 70 Classic Compact in .308 Win with a 20" barrel. Both really nice handling rifles and super accurate. My 20" barrel .308 handloads push a 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tip to 2868fps. So other opinions aside, if that ain't deer killing medicine, a
24" barrel won't help a wit. As an aside, my .358 Win Remington 760 pump has an 18.5" barrel and to date I have
15 one shot kills, only two of which did not collapse at the shot. I know a 22" or 24" barrel would not do any better
or even as good.
358 Win
 

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I love the model 7s. I have one in .308 and 260. My son has one in 308 and my wife has one in 260. The deer don't seem to notice the short barrel they all die the same as when you shoot them with a 24" barrel. They are just a lot lighter to carry.
 

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rbyham said:
I love the model 7s. I have one in .308 and 260. My son has one in 308 and my wife has one in 260. The deer don't seem to notice the short barrel they all die the same as when you shoot them with a 24" barrel. They are just a lot lighter to carry.
+1
 

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I've always liked short, quick handling bolt guns and when Ruger first introduced the 77 Ultralight many years ago, I bought one in .270 and although not the best cartridge for a carbine length barrel, it was accurate and worked well in the MI deer woods. A hunting partner decide he liked it more than I and paid dearly to make it his.



This .243 Model 7 was set up as a dedicated coyote rifle, but I've used it successfully on whitetails also. Sierra 75 gr hollow points at 3200 fps got the nod for dogs and 95 gr Noslers did well on deer. Even with the light thin barrel this rifle proved quite accurate, the Sierras would average .60" at 100 yards, the Noslers consistantly under an inch.




My favorite bolt action carbine is neither a model 7 or 77, but fits the description. It's a custom short action Remington Model 700 chambered in .350 Rem Mag that's accounted for the majority of the bears I've harvested, along with a fair share of whitetails.



With an ultra lightweight Rimrock stock, the 20.5" barreled powerhouse weights only 6.5 pounds including the Leupold 1.75 x 6 and a full load of cartridges. 225 gr Nosler Partitions exit the short barrel at an honest 2700 fps.



Roe
 

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I enjoy "compact" rifles too. My compact bollt guns are limited. I have a couple of custom mausers. The 35 Whelen wears a 20" barrel and my 6.5X55 wears a 21" barrel. Not a compact but I also have a Remington LSS Mountain rifle. It is a delight to hunt with too.

Have you tried a Ruger #1A, the light sporter version? 22" barrel with a OAL of about 38". They are trim, compact and fairly light (about 7#). 8)

Corbi
 

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Corbi,
Have you ever chronographed your loads out of you 20" barrelled .35 Whelen? I've got one at the gunsmith now to get shortened to 19.5". It's a Savage 110 with an Adams & Bennot magnum contour barrel @ 24".
358 Win
 

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I have a Model 7 CDL in 260; I've taken a few deer with it, they were dispatched quite readly - had to do a little work to find a load it like but it is a very handy little rifle. I sort of quit using it after I picked up the 270WSM - I just shoot it better in the field. I will probably start my grandson off on it when he is old enough to accompany me on my KY deer hunts. (a long wait for sure)
 

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I have a model seven KS in 35 Rem and 350 rem mag. At 5 3/4 pounds minus scope they are a joy to carry afield. If I were in bear country I would feel pretty good with the 350 Rem Mag. The little 35 Rem will just about stack 3 shots on top of one another at 100 yards and the 350 does just about the same. I like them for small boxstands as they are lighting fast to get into action. I never feel undergunned with the 20 inch barrel as both are just about right for the 20 inch barrel. My favorite rifle is a 77 Ruger fllatbolt in 350 rem mag so I think I am going to sell my Model seven in 350. I don't really need two 350's but the model seven is handy in the sense that you can load up with a 225 Nosler or load to 358 velocities with a 200 grain or load to 35 rem velocities or shoot 357 pistol bullets. It is a versatile rifle.
Nuff said.

Regards
Horseshoe
 

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Got a call from the gunsmith this afternoon so I went and picked up my rebarreled .35 Whelen. Not too much lighter but sure is more handy with the 19.5" barrel. Still muzzle heavy but hangs right nice when looking thru the
scope offhand. Not much wobble going on being heavy up front. Can't wait for the weather to get better here so I can head for the range with the chronograph and test this puppy with a 4.5" shorter barrel. We had snow again today on April 1st. Mother Nature's way of saying April Fools Day!!!!LOL
358 Win
 

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358 Win said:
Corbi,
Have you ever chronographed your loads out of you 20" barrelled .35 Whelen? I've got one at the gunsmith now to get shortened to 19.5". It's a Savage 110 with an Adams & Bennot magnum contour barrel @ 24".
358 Win
I have a chronograph.

200 grain Remington PSP, 55 grains 3031, WLR primer and remington brass gives me 2650 fps. I crimp the bullet at the crimp groove. The powder fills right up to the bottom of the bullet.

This load give me an honest 5/8" group at 100 yards. 8)

Corbi
 

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Corbi,
That's the same load I use in my .35 Whelens!!! Except I use the RP 9.5 primers and I don't crimp because of the long neck on the .35 Whelen. My 22" 700 Classic gives 2680fps and the rebarreled .35 Whelen was @ 2750fps. I'm
hoping to get at least 2600fps out of the shortened barrel which is now at 19.5". That IMR3031 load in both my Whelen's was super accurate also. Thanks for sharing your chronograph data with me!
358 Win
 

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A few years ago my daughter wanted to try her hand at hunting and I bought her a ruger compact stainless in .243.We managed to get her a small buck the first season and she decided killing wasn't her thing although she did want to eat it.The gun shot 3/4 to 1 1/4 with winchester power points,the first load I tried so we settled on them.Since I have my own guns to shoot it hasn't been hunted in 2 years and only out of the safe now and then when I clean my blued guns I give it a rub down.The controlled round feed is great and the 16 inch barrel makes walking with the gun at your side possible so a good gun for kids or those wanting light weight.
 

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I use a Ruger 77 MkII RLS in 308 with an 18 1/2" barrel. I heard how inaccurate short barrels are and how they would rob precious velocity from the short action calibers. Well, the old saying that goes "Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see." It's true. Everything I heard was false. This little gun shoots into an inch at 100 yards with handloads, Hornady 150 JSP and Remington 150 grain Coreloc factory loads. I've head shot partridge and snowshoe hares in the north woods of Maine. I shot whitetails in Maine and filled a cow moose tag in New Hampshire. Yeah, I heard that the 308 was too small for moose too. Good thing moose don't read. Mike
 

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My son hunts with a Remington Model 7 stainless synthetic in 308 Winchester.

Its one of the good Remingtons...and superbly accurate for a model 7 (1 moa @ 100 yds)
 

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Got to chrono my shortened 35 Whelen the other day. Gunsmith made the barrel 18.5", not 19.5" as requested. Oh well, too late now its a done
deal. My handload of 55gr IMR3031 and the 200gr RPPCL is going along @ 2584fps at 15" from the muzzle. Figure I'm getting right at 2600fps muzzle velocity. Plenty to kill any Blackbear or Whitetail we got in these parts. I did e-mail Johan at Western Powders to get a load using TAC in my shortened Whelen to try and get into the mid 2600fps area. He e-mailed me back the same day with load data that might work in the 18.5"
barreled Whelen. Haven't had a chance yet to work up some loads and chronograph them. Rain all the time here in NE PA. April so far we have
had 4.5" of rain and more expected the next three days.
358 Win
 
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