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Discussion Starter #1
I will soon be starting to reload for my guide gun and think I have narrowed down powder choices to two, H-322 and RL-7. I have pretty much made up my mind to use the speer 300 grain HP and try to see how close I can get it to replicate Buffalo Bore's 300 grain ammo (they claim 2300 fps from a guide gun). The Hodgdon website has a lot to say about its powder but Alliant's website says almost nothing about its powder. Some here claim they get more velocity from RL-7 at a given pressure level than from H-322 which is a good thing, but for hunting conditions I have other concerns. For instance, which powder would be less temperature and position sensitive? I also plan to use dippers to measure powder loads so I was wondering which powder would dip more accurately.
 

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If you look at Hodgdons website they list their extreme powders which H-322 is one. They are not temperature sensitive!
As far as dipping accurately try to be consistant when your doing it. I used to dip from a big plastic cup overloading the dipper then shaving the excess off of the top with a piece of thin cardboard.
 

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findrichard said:
I will soon be starting to reload for my guide gun and think I have narrowed down powder choices to two, H-322 and RL-7. I have pretty much made up my mind to use the speer 300 grain HP and try to see how close I can get it to replicate Buffalo Bore's 300 grain ammo (they claim 2300 fps from a guide gun). The Hodgdon website has a lot to say about its powder but Alliant's website says almost nothing about its powder. Some here claim they get more velocity from RL-7 at a given pressure level than from H-322 which is a good thing, but for hunting conditions I have other concerns. For instance, which powder would be less temperature and position sensitive? I also plan to use dippers to measure powder loads so I was wondering which powder would dip more accurately.

Be careful dipping...................Dipping is a volumetric method of measure..........it's NOT the same as using a scale, and different powders have different specific gravities, and also different "Nesting" characteristics........That is to say, they pack or "nest" differently into a given shape such as a dipper............

I've never dipped, I do have some older dipping tools...........just never wanted to use them as I think is a little vague as to the final measure that most manuals give in grains.........which is weight, not volumne.

Maybe some one else can shed more info on dipping ??

Tom
 

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I have the Lee Dipper set and it's great. It has a slide rule included that gives you the grain weights of the selected powder for each dipper. I also have a scale and I always check the accuracy of the dipper and periodically recheck it.

I have never had a problem and have found them to be accurate enough for my purposes. You may, however, find that it is difficult to hit specific grain weights between dipper sizes eg. the difference between a 3.7cc dipper and a 3.8cc dipper may put you over max and it's a pain to use 2 dippers to achieve a charge that's in between.

Hope this helps.
 

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I have used H4895 for many years in .45-70. I also use it for the .30-30. Works well for me. I also use the dippers and have no issues.
Keith
 

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Tomray said:
Maybe some one else can shed more info on dipping ??
The Lee dipper kit comes with a chart that has every powder in it, and how to relates to weight.

We dipped some 300 win mag, that had a max charge of 69 grain. After weighing the dipper load, it was 71 grain. SO we could not use it. It was extruded H4350

On the other hand I used Reloader 7, and the 2.8 & 3.1 dipper, and they both weighed right on the money. The 2.8 load was real nice, the 3.1 was a 45-70 arm breaker.

I also used the .5 dipper which is 4 grains, and it works nice with my black powder load.

Ball & flake powder seem to be right on. We decided only to use them for moderate loads. Which we very rarely load. normally we load spheres to the wall.
 

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Howdy!

I've built many a load with RL7 in the past. Never built real fast movers as I was shooting original Trapdoors and a Sharps from way back. However, my time spent with it and my Guide Gun have all been with cast bullets and mild loads. The whitetails here in Texas are not elk, thus I shoot at or just a hair above Black Powder velocity. I can say that loads with RL7 will be of lower pressure than most other powders to get the same velocity. You'll get more from the load with less pressure. It's a good powder and meters well.

One thing I did notice with this powder in the GG. It will not burn all the powder in the shorter barrel. I have "Powder Zombies" all up and dpwn the tube after shooting RL7 in the GG. The same load will burn it all in a longer barrel.

I have no crony thus I cannot give you any velocity data and such. These are just the observations of an old reloader :)

Wade :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all the comments, but now I got myself really confused, thought I had narrowed my search in powders down to two, but today I was studying Hodgdon's load data on their website and it looks like H4198 gives the highest velocities for all the bullets listed. Looking in my incomplete "The Complete Loading Manual for the 45/70" almost every section has load data for H4198. It is also one of Hodgdon's extreme powders that is insensitive to temperature variations and the granules were shortened to improve metering. Anybody have good results with H4198 in their guide gun?
 

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findrichard said:
Anybody have good results with H4198 in their guide gun?
I use H4198 exclusively right now and have since May 2010 when I started back up in reloading. That being said I'm no expert but have had great results with it behind the Remington 300gr HP and the 325gr FTX for the 45/70 and Remington 240gr JSP and 265gr FTX for the 444. Accuracy has been excellent in both my 444P and 1895G. I'll start using it shortly in the 1895M with 350gr Hornady JFP.

Hope that helps...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks gunner, all the folks on the Alaska Outdoor Forum (the three that answered me) said I should use H4198. I think I will start with that powder and work my way up to see if I can tolerate shooting the near max loads. I shot a box or two of Buffalo Bore's 300 grain loads in the past and they were manageable if I limit my range time to 10-15 bullets.
 

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I've been working on loads for my 1895GBL with the Hornady 300gr bullets and H4198. I've gone up to the max listed in Hornady's book without ill effects in Rem and Federal brass. I found that since I put a scope on my gun with 4+ inch eye relief, I can relax a bit more while shooting.

Now, I understand from other people that its it generally considered that Hornady's max loads are not as hot as those listed from other sources, but I don't feel the need to exceed them. I'm also waiting for better weather to set up the chrony to see how it is really doing.

Anyway between the thick recoil pad on the GBL and wearing a heavy coat, the recoil while it gets your attention, is not painful.
 

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H322 hands down! Great velocity and sub MOA with the 300 gr and 405 gr bullets out of my 1895 Guide gun.

JD338
 

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Only RL7 for me in my hunting roulnds and barnes TSX. It takes less volume than the others so you can load up as high as you dare. You need a chrony and careful attention to pressure signs.
 

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I should probably try some of these other powders that everyone is using but I have used mostly IMR3031 and always had outstanding accuracy with it.
 

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Wade, how do you load for the Trapdoor. What is your method for dealing with the original low front site? I have two trapdoors, 1884 Cadet and a 1884 Carbine. Both rifles shot into the sky so I rebuilt the front sites up with a type of steel putty that can be removed without damage to the original site. This works but the steel putty is real brittle and chips off easily.

riflerick
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Zerbe, I would be interested in knowing what kind of velocity and shot groups you are getting with the 300 grain bullets using H4198. One of the first pieces of reloading equipment I am buying is a chronograph. The range I shoot at allows only 25, 100 and 200 yard targets and I see no other way to know trajectory without knowing velocity. Plus pushing higher end loads it will also ease my fears of blowing up my guide gun.

No question H322, RL7, and IMR3031 are great powder choices for the 45-70, but I have been advised that with these powders, I will not be able to reach the 2300 fps velocity-range I am hoping to be able to tolerate. Here is why I am hoping to like 2300fps:
Notice at 200 yards the Speer 300 grain bullet is still moving in excess of 1500 fps. which should ensure reliable expansion and the bullet is no more than 2 inches high or low all the way out to 174 yards.


Output Data
Elevation: 6.150 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 174 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 149 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 85 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1843.1 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.204 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Velocity Energy
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (ft•lbs)
20 0.3 1.3 0.1 0.4 2232.4 3319.2
30 0.7 2.4 0.2 0.6 2192.4 3201.2 0.0 0.0
40 1.2 2.7 0.3 0.8 2152.7 3086.4 0.0 0.0
50 1.5 2.8 0.5 1.0 2113.5 2974.9 0.0 0.0
60 1.7 2.7 0.8 1.2 2074.6 2866.6 0.0 0.0
70 1.9 2.6 1.1 1.4 2036.2 2761.5 0.0 0.0
80 2.0 2.4 1.4 1.7 1998.2 2659.4 0.0 0.0
90 2.0 2.1 1.8 1.9 1960.7 2560.4 0.0 0.0
100 1.9 1.8 2.2 2.1 1923.6 2464.3 0.0 0.0
110 1.7 1.5 2.7 2.3 1886.9 2371.3 0.0 0.0
120 1.4 1.1 3.2 2.6 1850.7 2281.1 0.0 0.0
130 1.0 0.8 3.8 2.8 1814.9 2193.8 0.0 0.0
140 0.5 0.4 4.5 3.1 1779.6 2109.4 0.0 0.0
150 -0.1 -0.0 5.2 3.3 1744.9 2027.8 0.0 0.0
160 -0.8 -0.5 6.0 3.6 1710.6 1948.9 0.0 0.0
170 -1.6 -0.9 6.8 3.8 1676.9 1872.8 0.0 0.0
180 -2.6 -1.4 7.7 4.1 1643.7 1799.4 0.0 0.0
190 -3.7 -1.8 8.7 4.4 1611.1 1728.7 0.0 0.0
200 -4.9 -2.3 9.7 4.6 1579.0 1660.6 0.0 0.0
 

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I suggest you take a look at the loads I saw a few weeks ago with AA1680. They showed some impressive velocities with this powder as saft pressures. I will try if I ever run out of RL7?? However, 2300fps is acheivable with RL7 and enough barrel.

enjoy
 

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janott said:
I should probably try some of these other powders that everyone is using but I have used mostly IMR3031 and always had outstanding accuracy with it.
I've pretty much standardized on 3031 myself. My .45-70 converted Siamese Mauser just loves heavy charges of 3031 behind the 405 grain Remington JSP bullet. I've been tempted to try H4198, but I haven't done so yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Looked at the Accurate Powder website and they have nothing listed for AA1680 with 45-70 loads. They did list an impressive load for the 444 with AA1680.

Powder Bullet: Load:
(Grains)Make Type Start (Grains) Velocity Max (Grains) Max Velocity Max Load Pressure (psi) COL(inch)
1680 200 HDY XTP 54.2 2,566 57.0 2,730 41,300 2.520
 

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one of the first powders i tryed with 45 70 was 3031 it worked so good i have never had any need to try the outhers, im sure there are other great powders out there but one hole groups with my b 78 was as good as i needed! my guide guns seems to shoot realy well with 3031 too. csa ;)
 
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