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There is a somewhat optimistic article in "Rifle Sporting Arms Journal" regarding the factory retooling and re-blueprinting to fix the quality woes. Author promises to review the "new" New York guns once they are released to production. :questionmark:
 

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Call me cynical, but I've learned that it's usually a safe bet to believe all the bad rumors and none of the good ones.
Okay, you're cynical. Better now?

I'm from Missouri. We practically invented cynical, and I agree with you. Remington is going to need ten years of nearly-perfect products to undo the damage they've done to their own brand, and the others they've ruined. We may eventually forgive them, but we will NEVER forget the junk they've foisted upon an unsuspecting, (formerly) loyal public.

Here's a thought.......there are over 53,000 members on this forum, and if each of us could scrape together $100, we could raise over five million dollars. Some folks could afford a lot more than that, and together it might be enough to buy the Marlin name back from Freedom Group/Remington, or maybe we could just call it the JM Levergun Company, and hire as many true craftsmen as we could find, plus a few engineers who know, love and understand Marlins. And there WOULD be a custom shop!

Then maybe Mossberg and the other imitators would stop making plastic-stocked 30-30's and let the pros show them how it's done.

Okay, my pipe dream is over, I'm going home soon to fondle my JM's and load some ammo. But it was nice while it lasted. :embarassed:
 

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Marlins quality started dropping off in the late 1980's, so the craftsman are all gone, if a company hires folks who reflect there morals and ethnics, with the right management, that would be a great start! Marlin failed with leadership, they through under the Bus, their namesake cartridges, and they did not know there customer!
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think "papajohn" is on the right track; it's about market share and hopefully Remington has learned a lesson. If the gun writing authors begin penning positive reviews of the "new" Marlin lever gun the die-hard fans on this forum will begin buying that rifle. American made lever guns is a good market to capture.
 

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$5 million wouldn't be a drop in the bucket to buy all the marlin patents and equipment
owned by Remington.
I used to be a plant supervisor for a machine shop and there is a lot to it.
Even if you could buy the brand, setup the equipment and get a building sorted out.
You'd be far better off building a clone than using the Marlin name depending on
what's on the patents.
Quality costs money and there is no way a small shop could produce quality
rifles for $500 or less. Remember, manufacturers sell at wholesale prices to
distributors. Your new Marlin clone would end up costing $1,500 by the time it got
into the publics hands, at a minimum. Time delays would be long and you'd still
have people saying a JM was better.
 

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Okay, you're cynical. Better now?

I'm from Missouri. We practically invented cynical, and I agree with you. Remington is going to need ten years of nearly-perfect products to undo the damage they've done to their own brand, and the others they've ruined. We may eventually forgive them, but we will NEVER forget the junk they've foisted upon an unsuspecting, (formerly) loyal public.

Here's a thought.......there are over 53,000 members on this forum, and if each of us could scrape together $100, we could raise over five million dollars. Some folks could afford a lot more than that, and together it might be enough to buy the Marlin name back from Freedom Group/Remington, or maybe we could just call it the JM Levergun Company, and hire as many true craftsmen as we could find, plus a few engineers who know, love and understand Marlins. And there WOULD be a custom shop!

Then maybe Mossberg and the other imitators would stop making plastic-stocked 30-30's and let the pros show them how it's done.

Okay, my pipe dream is over, I'm going home soon to fondle my JM's and load some ammo. But it was nice while it lasted. :embarassed:
OK I'm sold. sign me up and I'll have a 100 bucks or 100 quid's worth. Maybe more.
From the Brit (JM) Marlin sales office where fondling Marlins is not just OK it's a requirement
Grovesie[
 

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$5 million wouldn't be a drop in the bucket to buy all the marlin patents and equipment
owned by Remington.
I used to be a plant supervisor for a machine shop and there is a lot to it.
Even if you could buy the brand, setup the equipment and get a building sorted out.
You'd be far better off building a clone than using the Marlin name depending on
what's on the patents.
Quality costs money and there is no way a small shop could produce quality
rifles for $500 or less. Remember, manufacturers sell at wholesale prices to
distributors. Your new Marlin clone would end up costing $1,500 by the time it got
into the publics hands, at a minimum. Time delays would be long and you'd still
have people saying a JM was better.
You've got a better understanding than most of the cost of doing business these days.

Additionally, imagine the utilities required to run a big milling and assembly operation.

Imagine the insurance costs, Keeper, Legal and Liability.

Imagine the logistical issues involved simply in securing the raw materials necessary these days.

All of that before you ever start trying to find qualified people to run the machines and do the assembly work ... they would all want over $20.00 an hour.

I've friends with two local, well-known nationally respected rifle makers and they've both told me in the past that it would be next to impossible to start-up a levergun manufacturing facility from scratch in the U.S. these days and make it profitable. And that, while we surround ourselves with levergunners on this forum, levergun sales still make up less than 1% of all firearms sales in the world each year and that 1% is already being heavily competed for by existing, well-establish manufacturers.

Where there is money to be made in our particular market is in customizing. Fine tuning. Balance and blue-printing existing rifles.
 

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If you bought the Marlin name, why couldn't you just call the new company "Marlin"?
Because it's been sullied beyond repair, thanks to Remington.

What might work for five or ten million dollars would be JUST a custom shop, making Marlins and Remlins into what they should have been before they got out the door, with an emphasis on quality work, custom stocks, hand-cut checkering, and guns chambered in whatever reasonable calibers the customer wanted. There are a lot of weird people (like me) that would pay handsomely for an 1894 chambered in oh, I don't know, maybe 256 Winchester Magnum, which would only involve a barrel swap, the standard 1894C would not need anything else. Part of the romance of the levergun is the older and "obsolete" calibers they are capable of handling, and even some newer calibers with moderate pressure ceilings. Think of the possibilities........different chamberings, with the option of an octagonal barrel, or semi-octagon, special sights, there would be a lengthy list of options. Prices would be typical of custom work, maybe less, but a lot of folks would love to be able to have those options available!

There is always a desire for things like 356's, 358's, 40-65's, you name it. The basic design mandates a realistic pressure ceiling of 40,000 CUP or so, unless certain parts are beefed up, and once you get into the bigger bore sizes, the margin of safety diminishes. But how many people would love to see a Marlin in .327 Federal (a modernized 32-20, if you will) or a 7-30 Waters, 38-40, 44-40, maybe even 10mm.

I know, I'm dreaming. I've begged, whined and rambled about a Marlin Custom shop since the days of Marlin Talk, a dozen years ago. But I still think there's a market for such a thing, and I know Marlin shooters would be willing to shell out the bucks to get exactly what they want, if only it was available.

I still want an 1894 in .256 WM, and if I live long enough, I might eventually have it done, just because the world needs more innovation and a place for dreamers like me to plant our fantasies.

So you can stop dragging me back to the real world.............I don't like it here!
 

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I don't know what all the fuss is about ? I bought a new Marlin 1895G last month and it's made right and shoot's right. Well fitted and finished! It shoots great. Made better than some of the 1980 rifles we have and shots better than our 1895 with a micro-groove barrel. I am very pleased with my new Marlin.
 

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A parallel, situation exists in the Savage 99 world. Savage is willing to re-introduce the 99 when modern production methods, and customer demand meet and create a profitable environment for the manufacturer. This day may never arrive, but it at least its being looked at..

Can just imagine a newly produced 99C, somebody is going to want a 30 round mag for it.
 

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I ran a 40 man shop for a lot of years. I had learned a lot running my fathers machine shop
before that.
You could make a nice little startup for 5-10 million and it would produce quality lever actions.
But you'd have to train people as well as pull in older skilled workers.
You'd have to be small enough to avoid hassles with OSHA and Unions.
You'd still have more orders than you could fill in 2 years time so people would complain about that.
It's tougher now to be a gun manufacturer than it was 20 years ago.

I just wonder how long it would be before you saw a return on your investment.
I'm guessing quite a long time.
 

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Okay, you're cynical. Better now?

I'm from Missouri. We practically invented cynical, and I agree with you. Remington is going to need ten years of nearly-perfect products to undo the damage they've done to their own brand, and the others they've ruined. We may eventually forgive them, but we will NEVER forget the junk they've foisted upon an unsuspecting, (formerly) loyal public.

Here's a thought.......there are over 53,000 members on this forum, and if each of us could scrape together $100, we could raise over five million dollars. Some folks could afford a lot more than that, and together it might be enough to buy the Marlin name back from Freedom Group/Remington, or maybe we could just call it the JM Levergun Company, and hire as many true craftsmen as we could find, plus a few engineers who know, love and understand Marlins. And there WOULD be a custom shop!

Then maybe Mossberg and the other imitators would stop making plastic-stocked 30-30's and let the pros show them how it's done.

Okay, my pipe dream is over, I'm going home soon to fondle my JM's and load some ammo. But it was nice while it lasted. :embarassed:
Yeah, I wish someone had thought of that before they scrapped the factory and machinery.

When Remington bought the Bushmaster name the original owner just started making ARs under the Windham name in the same factory I believe. He said they were going to produce much fewer rifles than they had as Bushmaster but the reputation nad lower price has made them an instant success again and I am seeing many more Windhams than I am Bushmaster rifles these days.

There could not be any patents still in effect and anyone could start a factory making quality guns in the Marlin style if they had the ambition and the capital. I think lever action rifles require a lot of work that other rifles, like bolt actions do not so the profitability of such a venture is not as much.... that is why FN closed the Winchester factory down too... though now they are making very expensive versions in Japan???
 

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Because it's been sullied beyond repair, thanks to Remington.

What might work for five or ten million dollars would be JUST a custom shop, making Marlins and Remlins into what they should have been before they got out the door, with an emphasis on quality work, custom stocks, hand-cut checkering, and guns chambered in whatever reasonable calibers the customer wanted. There are a lot of weird people (like me) that would pay handsomely for an 1894 chambered in oh, I don't know, maybe 256 Winchester Magnum, which would only involve a barrel swap, the standard 1894C would not need anything else. Part of the romance of the levergun is the older and "obsolete" calibers they are capable of handling, and even some newer calibers with moderate pressure ceilings. Think of the possibilities........different chamberings, with the option of an octagonal barrel, or semi-octagon, special sights, there would be a lengthy list of options. Prices would be typical of custom work, maybe less, but a lot of folks would love to be able to have those options available!

There is always a desire for things like 356's, 358's, 40-65's, you name it. The basic design mandates a realistic pressure ceiling of 40,000 CUP or so, unless certain parts are beefed up, and once you get into the bigger bore sizes, the margin of safety diminishes. But how many people would love to see a Marlin in .327 Federal (a modernized 32-20, if you will) or a 7-30 Waters, 38-40, 44-40, maybe even 10mm.

I know, I'm dreaming. I've begged, whined and rambled about a Marlin Custom shop since the days of Marlin Talk, a dozen years ago. But I still think there's a market for such a thing, and I know Marlin shooters would be willing to shell out the bucks to get exactly what they want, if only it was available.

I still want an 1894 in .256 WM, and if I live long enough, I might eventually have it done, just because the world needs more innovation and a place for dreamers like me to plant our fantasies.

So you can stop dragging me back to the real world.............I don't like it here!

I want them all!!!! Wouldnt it be great to be able to have an 1894 in 10mm?

Doc
 

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I don't know what all the fuss is about ? I bought a new Marlin 1895G last month and it's made right and shoot's right. Well fitted and finished! It shoots great. Made better than some of the 1980 rifles we have and shots better than our 1895 with a micro-groove barrel. I am very pleased with my new Marlin.
Not everyone has had your experience bandolier. I just bought a new 1895GS last month too. In the process, I rejected the other 2 GS rifles the dealer had because one had canted and misaligned sights and the opening of the loading port was as rough as a single cut mill file. The other rejected gun I could not close the lever at all about 1 out of every 5 to 8 cycles. The wood on every gun, including the one I bought was not well-fitted at all and the checkering was just a rough mess hardly distinguishable as even being intended to be checkering. Several of the blued guide guns I looked had had similar problems.

Was at the same store last week and heard a guy talking to the clerk about sights being misaligned on a rifle he was looking at and complaining about the terrible wood and checkering. I went over, and sure enough was an 1895S that the clerk said was from a new batch that just arrived. One of the owners was laughing about the poor quality they are seeing and recommended that the guy look for a JM unless he wants to work on it to bring it up to par as I had to do with mine.

The one I bought was extremely rough inside and the lever plunger angle cuts were too shallow that made closing the lever very difficult. I smoothed mine up, filed the plunger angles and lightened the spring. The gun will shoot into just a little more than 1" at 50 yds so far with old ammo so it will shoot but the wood still looks like sh** and I will have to sand and refinish and refit the wood myself too.

You got lucky bandolier and that is what the fuss is all about.
The majority... yes the majority of the rifles I examined had serious flaws that should not exist in rifles costing upwards of $750 to $800 or so. I had previously rejected all (5) of the GS rifles that the closest Cabelas had in stock. Most had canted sights and action problems as well as the terrible wood. To sum up, of the 8 rifles I got my hands on for possible purchase, only one was a gun that I could make work by investing a lot of time and labor in.
 

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There is a somewhat optimistic article in "Rifle Sporting Arms Journal" regarding the factory retooling and re-blueprinting to fix the quality woes. Author promises to review the "new" New York guns once they are released to production. :questionmark:
Brian Pierce said the same thing. "They have retooled and fit and finish on the sample rifles was as good if not better than when Marlin last produced the original product."
But they admitted that when they first took over Marlin and invited assorted scribes to come look at the product, they handed the writers Pre-Remington produced Marlins as sample. The resulting factory produced rifles were, as we all have see, "wanting". Having done this once and confessing it, I would expect they would have it together this time.
Lets hope this is correct and good product starts to flow again soon. But in the meanwhile I won't hold my breath......
 
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