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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am wondering if any of ya'll sight in your 45-70's using the Remington 405 gr. stuff about 3 inchs high at a 100 yards. It stands to reason that a 150 yard zero might be a was to get around the drastic drop. Most information Ive read say that round drops about 14 inches or better at 200 yards. Please help me out here.
 

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My ballistics calculator indicates about a 20" drop at 200 yards with a 1500 fps MV at 70 degrees.
 

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With the 405 gr Remington factory load (1330 fps, BC 0.281), assuming iron sights 1" above the bore:

Sighting 2" high at 100 yards:
3.4" high at 75 yrd,
2" high at 100 yrd,
5.7" low at 150 yrd,
20.4" low at 200 yrd

Sighting 2.5" high at 100 yards:
3.8" high at 74 yrd,
2.5" high at 100 yrd,
4.9" low at 150 yrd,
19.4" low at 200 yrd

Sighting 3" high at 100 yards:
4.2" high at 75 yrd,
3" high at 100 yrd,
4.2" low at 150 yrd,
18.4" low at 200 yrd

Sighting to zero at 150 yards:
6.2" high at 75 yrd,
5.8" high at 100 yrd,
zero at 150 yrd,
12.9" low at 200 yrd

Unfortunately, sometimes there's just no getting around the laws of physics.

Personally, I'd sight 2" high at 100 yards and call it a 125-yrd load - that is, I'd pass up anything over 125 yards. If I was expecting any longer shots, I'd surely put in the time and effort to find out exactly what this load was doing at those longer ranges.

Estimating the distance to the target gets hyper-critical beyond 150 yards, and you can cleanly miss - or badly wound - easily just by being off +/-10 yards yards in the estimated range to target. If you don't have the experience to judge distances very accurately, or the time to use a rangefinder on long shots, do your deer a favor and look for a closer shot, one within 125 yards.
 

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I sight my 45/70 in 1" high @ 50 yards and then shoot at 100 yards and 150 yards to see my actual drop. 99% of my shots are under 100 yards and honestly most are under 50 yards.

The Rem 405's are slow but 2" high @ 50 should be around a 100 yard zero which would put you 8-10" low @ 150 yards and I would call it a day right there.


I shot my 1895G with a 405 @ 1511fps @ 600 yards and I had around 50 feet of drop, pretty fun and I scared the whiz out of a 12" plate. As was said above as range increases it gets very tough with slow movers.
 

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Rem 405 factory ammo is notoriously slow. Easy shooting, but slow, like 1100 - 1300 fps slow.

Guy
I ran some across my chrony from a 22" barrel, they clocked an average of 1325 with the chrony 15' from the muzzle. The muzzle blast caused error readings on three of ten shots, prompting some research. It is recommended that one use a sheild to deflect the blast between the chrony and the muzzle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have been looking at Lyman's 1878 Sharps rifle and the rifle comes with a Lymans tang sight. I have no experience with tang sights. I understand this is a real cheap sight. I am curious about other sights like MVA and creedmore sights. Do they have preset or marked elevations marks for quick adjustment for different yardage. I really want a Sharps rifle but find it hard to justify using it for a hunting rifle due to its tremendous drop. Most of my shots will likely be under 100 yards but more often than not I have 150 to 200 shots. I'm going to back track another one of my threads where someone said to read a tang is a tang is a tang. I have read all the replys and tried to give thanks to you guys but my computer is not allowing me to thank posts now.
 

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I ran some across my chrony from a 22" barrel, they clocked an average of 1325 with the chrony 15' from the muzzle. The muzzle blast caused error readings on three of ten shots, prompting some research. It is recommended that one use a sheild to deflect the blast between the chrony and the muzzle.
Very good. That's exactly what I'd expect out of a 22" barrel .45/70 with 405 gr Remington factory ammo, about 1300 fps.

Guys with 16" and 18" rifles have reported considerably less velocity from that ammo. It's good ammo, just very, very mild & slow. Barely any bullet expansion in the tests I ran some years back. Good ammo. Slow. Lots of drop. I thoroughly enjoyed shooting it, and handloads that approximated it.

Regards, Guy
 

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I ran some across my chrony from a 22" barrel, they clocked an average of 1325 with the chrony 15' from the muzzle. The muzzle blast caused error readings on three of ten shots, prompting some research. It is recommended that one use a sheild to deflect the blast between the chrony and the muzzle.
How do you set up your shield?
 

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Slgabba,
That round emulates very closely the original 405gr BP cavalry round. It worked well for that application when the shooter was well equipped to estimate yardage and knew his equipment well. The scenario you described is very doable but only when you are familiar with all factors.

Get the rifle, ammo, and good sights and sit down and do it. It will work but it takes some patience and diligence.
 

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I am curious about other sights like MVA and creedmore sights. Do they have preset or marked elevations marks for quick adjustment for different yardage.”
--Gabby

The elevation scale on the Sharps Vernier tang, Soule style tang, and what you refer to as Creedmoor sights are not marked in pre-set yardages.

A Quick Answer to a long question is that elevation markings on the MVA tang sight are calibrated in .010" increments. In other words, .010" movement is approximately 1 minute of angle on rifle with a 30 to 36 inch sight radius.

See below for a more detailed response --

Adjusting a MVA Sharps Vernier scale sight:
www.montanavintagearms.com/vernier_instructions.html

Adjusting a Soule tang sight:
www.montanavintagearms.com/soule_instructions.html

As for the Marbles tang sights: “The Marble Arms® Peep Tang Sight is adjustable for windage and elevation. The adjustments are micrometer precise. Each firm detent click equals four-tenths of an inch movement at 100 yards.” Same for the Improved tang sight.
www.marblearms.com/standardPeepTang.html
www.marblearms.com/improvedPeepTang.html

As for the Lyman 1878, there is nothing specific about the sighting system. But looking at the Lyman tang sight, instructions reveals:

“The graduated scale which is on the sight stem does not indicate particular distances and therefore can be used only after the gun had been tried.
Shoot first at nearly point-blank range, say 50 yards, noting the graduated marks on the scale; than shoot at 75,100, 150 and 200, noting each distance on the sight, and if necessary putting on additional marks, so that the scale will be understood.”
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/sights/pdf/LyC_Sight_Tang.pdf

Some of my Shiloh-Sharps rifles have the Vernier tang with aperture front sights, and I find them difficult to adjust when moving from say 100 to 200 yards. But that is because I have difficulty reading a Vernier scale-- I just do not understand the Vernier System --and my eyesight makes reading the small scale difficult. In my experience, such sights are neither the easiest nor the quickest to adjust for changes in range.

However, the barrel sights on a Sharps rifle will shoot, esp. those found on the Shiloh-Sharps rifles. There are several shooters over on the Shiloh board who regularly shoot with the barrel sights for hunting and have grown quiet adept with them either on targets or game. A Shooter must just take the time to learn to properly use them and become skilful at accurately estimating distance. I have no idea as to the quality or precision of the barrel sights on the other Sharps rifle manufactures.

Now as to the velocity of the Remington 405 grain ammunition, like Winchester and Federal, it is loaded to Trapdoor level pressure levels. At one time, the ammunition manufacturers loaded HV marked (High velocity) .45-70 ammunition, but stopped as too many old Black Powder Era firearms were destroyed. The best way to improve upon a .45-70 ballistics is to hand load, taking into account the firearms pressure levels and when it was made.
 

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How do you set up your shield?
A 2'X4' sheet of plywood with a notch centered and about 4" wide, and deep enough to see the chrony, 5' in front of it. It has to be pretty secure, the muzzle blast from a 45-70 has considerable force. Oddly enough I haven't experience that problem with any other rifle, but I may use the shield anyway from now on.
 

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I'm currently using IMR4198 with:
36.5 grains
Starline brass
CCI LRP
Lasercast 405 HC

I sighted her in at 2" high at 50 yards which yielded 1" low at 100 yards. I have not had a chance to chromo but I'm guessing we are at 1400 FPS. I took my first boar with this load. Shot was 85 yards which I assumed would be about dead on the mark.
 

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I load the 405 to 1550fps, chronographed, out of my Guide Gun. Since I can't use it here in IL, all I use it for is black bear over baits. I sight in dead on at 50 yards. It only drops about 1.5 to 2" at 100 should I need to shoot something that far.
 

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A 2'X4' sheet of plywood with a notch centered and about 4" wide, and deep enough to see the chrony, 5' in front of it. It has to be pretty secure, the muzzle blast from a 45-70 has considerable force. Oddly enough I haven't experience that problem with any other rifle, but I may use the shield anyway from now on.
Thanks - I have the same issue with a 300 mag. Will give it a try.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks every one for the replies, I'll just have to shoot and find out what it does. It sounds like 2 high at 50 will get me where I want to be if I get it.
 

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Had my first outing with new to me 1895 with 405's over varget today. Shot extremely well at 50yds and will move it out to 100 next trip out.
 
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