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Discussion Starter #1
As the thread name implies,I would like to know what the best non-inline muzzleloader (percussion and flintlock). I want a good accurate(preferably semi-lightweight) muzzleloader.
 

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if you cant afford a custom hand built t/c or lyman are hard to beat
 
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May dad and I used to shoot black powder and the area Mountain Man shoots. We both shot T/C 50 cal percussion Hawkens. Very accurate with the set triggers.
 
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I shoot a Browning Mountain rifle.... great gun in my mind. I also have a TC Cougar that shoots well but the Browning feels better to me
 

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TC made what was called the Pennsylvania Hunter. It had a round ball twist barrel of somewhere around 30". This would be lighter than the Hawken or the Renegade. I would stay away from the TC Seneca and Cherokee as they are both light. The Lyman Great Plains are good too available in left and right flint and cap for a new. Used the old CVA Mountain Rifle in good condition is a good choice. What price range are you looking at? There are always some custom plain Jane rifles floating around for less than a $1000. Check out americanlongrifles.com you may be surprised what turns up.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
TC made what was called the Pennsylvania Hunter. It had a round ball twist barrel of somewhere around 30". This would be lighter than the Hawken or the Renegade. I would stay away from the TC Seneca and Cherokee as they are both light. The Lyman Great Plains are good too available in left and right flint and cap for a new. Used the old CVA Mountain Rifle in good condition is a good choice. What price range are you looking at? There are always some custom plain Jane rifles floating around for less than a $1000. Check out americanlongrifles.com you may be surprised what turns up.
I am looking for a muzzleloader that is under $600
 

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graf and sons have some lyman flint and caplocks for $400 to $550 50 and 54 cal. I have a couple and they are ok.They can be shipped directly to you as they are not concedered firearms
 

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IMG_1373.jpg Are you going to be shooting balls, bullets, sabots? I'd just look for a slightly used TC renegade. I have a nice high grade custom hawken built by TC, but it aint light or cheap, but has no problem being accurate out to 100 yards shooting balls. My TC treehawk is light and accurate and I got it for $125 in like new shape. TC new englanders/white mountain carbines, renegades, etc.. there are many options. Every one wants inlines now so side locks are great deals now.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
View attachment 84087 Are you going to be shooting balls, bullets, sabots? I'd just look for a slightly used TC renegade. I have a nice high grade custom hawken built by TC, but it aint light or cheap, but has no problem being accurate out to 100 yards shooting balls. My TC treehawk is light and accurate and I got it for $125 in like new shape. TC new englanders/white mountain carbines, renegades, etc.. there are many options. Every one wants inlines now so side locks are great deals now.
I really don't know what I will shoot. I am leaning more towards the patched balls because I have lead moulds and plenty of lead.
 
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Here is another vote for the T/C Renegade. I now shoot the T/C Omega but shot the Renegade in 50 and 54 caliber since the mid 70's. I still have the 50 caliber in the gun safe. Although it is a somewhat heavy rifle, it has been a deer killing machine for me over the years.

Jim
 
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The Lyman Great Plains I had in 54 caliber was a round ball barrel. With a patched .530 round ball, it was more accurate than I am.
 

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If you decide on the Lyman find to try before you buy. They don't fit everyone.
 

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I have an Austin & Halleck that is very well made and lovely to look at too. Unfortunately, they are no longer in business. I tried different brands, and settled on the Austin & Halleck flintlock that I had to beg my buddy to sell me. It is a tack driver with patched round balls, and it fits me so well. I wish now I'd bought a few more when they were liquidating. You still find them around.
If you find one and it fits you, I think you'll be hooked. I'm 6' and he was 5'8" and we both felt it fit well, but everybody's different so if you can try different ones, it's really helpful.
 

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I bet folks are cringing right about now :)

First off, if it has a brand name, its a third world production gun. They are what most have, because they are to cheap to build one that will last their lifetime.

Cap locks are not better than flintlocks, only a bit faster to reload.

Save yer beer money up, and buy one of these kits.

Jim Chambers Flintlocks

My 45 cal, 42 inch swamped & relived barrel puts a patched round ball out the muzzle at 2033fps.

Webbles, wobble, and fall down
 
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Cap locks are not better than flintlocks, only a bit faster to reload.
:ahhhhh:
Pard I will disagree on the reload. I use the same pouch and horn set-up for both my .54's. If there is a difference in reloading I can't tell it. If anything the flint is faster to reload because I don't have to pick off bits of cap from the nipple. I do not need to pick the touch hole on my flint as the powder often protrudes from the vent.
The last I checked Italy and Spain are not third world countries. I think Lyman is Italian and traditions is Spain although I am not sure. I do agree that a properly made Chambers will be a better gun in the long run. That goes for several other American Kit makers. The price of the kits gives most entry level muzzle loader shooters sticker shock. And keep in mind that even the Chambers kits are not easy for the first time builder to assemble. I have made good money buying unfinished kits guns that had errors beyond the ability of the first time builder to fix.
 

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The last I checked Italy and Spain are not third world countries. I think Lyman is Italian and traditions is Spain although I am not sure.
My Lyman was made in Italy although I don't know who the actual manufacturer was. I do know that they seem to be a bit more pricier now than they were in '82, when I bought mine.
 

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If I were ever going to get another percussion smokepole it would be a .50cal. Lyman Plains rifle with a 1 in 60 twist. To me there is not a finer one out there for shooting a patch and ball.
 

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Been shooting a .50 T/C Hawken since 1972, in matches, for hunting, and just plain old plinkin. It really got a workout whenever I'd draw a shotgun/muzzleloader only five antlerless deer limit tag for the then-nearby wildlife refuge. Boy. That was a mouthful.
 

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When I shoot a muzzle loader, it's a 54 cal Thompson Center Renegade. If I had it to do over, I might get the 45 cal.
CF
 
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