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Discussion Starter #1
I'm brand new to the caliber, but a buddy is offering me a like new Winchester 94 Trails End Takedown with dies and 100 brass for a steal.

I'm inclined to take it, because everyone else backed down when they heard the caliber, and claimed it to be a "Dead Caliber".

For the record, I have extensive experience with 45/70 and loading for it, and while the cartridges themselves are not interchangeable the load data is to a certain extent. So, if I wanted to load the 450 Marlin "Down" using 5744 or Trail Boss, it would take the same bullets as the .460 sized 45/70 bullets I already have a glut of.

What are your thoughts?

Is there still a chance for this chambering to make a comeback, or is it dead and I should just hang up the offer?
 

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I picked up the 1895M not long ago. I enjoy calibres that are a bit different from everyone else. When i found a place here in Australia that had brass,I grabbed 100. Like you said, bullets the same as 45/70 being the same helps. Can't wait to see how it goes once this China virus BS lets me out of lockdown!
 

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I do not know anything about the Winchester rifle in that caliber, but if it shoots well for a good price, then why not get it.
Similar ballistics to the 45-70 for hunting purposes. I believe the brass is still made for this caliber by Hornady and I have seen new ammo on a few store shelves, but the price tag was high.
Andrew
 

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I do not know anything about the Winchester rifle in that caliber, but if it shoots well for a good price, then why not get it.
Similar ballistics to the 45-70 for hunting purposes. I believe the brass is still made for this caliber by Hornady and I have seen new ammo on a few store shelves, but the price tag was high.
Andrew
After looking for additional brass ... I think I've decided to pass on the rifle. The only way to get new brass at this time is to buy Hornady loaded ammo for $34 a box of 20. I have literally searched the internet for the past 3 hours, and can't find a single box of 50 piece of NEW brass.

I think this one is a truly a dead caliber. With Hornady the only manufacturer of ammo, and they're only making one option .... it's done.
 

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I got a .450 MR years ago just because it was cool - and I fell in love the instant I shot it. Sure it is a "dead" caliber and you can easily use a .45-70 with lots more availability and flexibility of ammo - doesn't change the fact that the .450 is cool. If you shoot a lot you will for sure need to have lots of brass and the rest is easy. I stopped loading years ago and just paid attention - and have scooped up enough factory 350 gr FPs to last me the remainder of my days, for sure. Just my two cents - grab it up!!!

Boris - see the pm I sent you - need a phone number
 

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There is nothing wrong with the way it performs. However. Because it was the answer to an unasked question once the shiny wore off there was not really a market for it. No way I would recommend one to someone that does not handload. I would bet that brass will become available again but you would need to snatch it up when it comes in stock.
 

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I have only shot a limited number of rounds with a 450Marlin.
Over in Texas during a visit with some Marlinites.
It sure has a sharp kick and what I shot at I also hit.

There are nigh none over here, but this is the place they should be.
It would be a damn good day/hunting rifle out on the game areas here , (a lug around)~ It sure packs enough punch to keep me comfortable.
:elefant::biggrin::elefant:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
After consideration, I have decided to go ahead and pick up the rifle. If nothing else, it will be an "Oddity" in my collection of Marlin rifles and various Winchester offerings.

Thanks to all for your input. I'll simply start to hunt down brass, and keep in mind that I need to keep my Hornady Ammo brass separate and only for FTX bullet loads. I'm familiar with this concept in 45/70 and can't understand why Hornady can't simply use standard length brass and shorten the nose on their polymer tip. Oh well, that's a discussion for another time.
 

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After looking for additional brass ... I think I've decided to pass on the rifle. The only way to get new brass at this time is to buy Hornady loaded ammo for $34 a box of 20. I have literally searched the internet for the past 3 hours, and can't find a single box of 50 piece of NEW brass.

I think this one is a truly a dead caliber. With Hornady the only manufacturer of ammo, and they're only making one option .... it's done.
It’s not dead at all, hornady runs a batch of brass every so often they call it “seasonal”. Buy a couple boxes of loaded stuff to play with until they make brass again.

If it’s a steal as you say than it would be a no brained for me. It’s a hell of a cartridge!


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Don't own a .450 Marlin, and doubt I will, as the question comes to me, "WHY"? What is the point?

It is not that it is not a worthy cartridge, but there are similarities to all the hype brought on by the short magnum craze, many of which were also worthy cartridges, but why.

Other then to generate more sales, there was little to be gained, and now, like the .450 there is the brass availability issue. Brass sometimes available from some sources, maybe.

OK I understand that this may not be a apples to apples comparison, But a few posts back I saw an image of a chronograph showing a 2467fps velocity with a 300gr bullet. So, what is the big deal?

With my RUGER #1 - 45/70 I have tested 355gr Wide Flat Nose cast bullets to 2500fps and made the mistake of hunting with that bullet at 2300fps. One critter sure convinced me about the effectiveness of a cast WFN bullet, but also left me wondering what I had turned loose on the game population. No devastation as could be expected with a jacketed bullet of the same velocity/weight but it sure left a big wound channel. Not minced bone and tissue, just a very large clean would channel.

Now, even at the plus 2000fps velocities, the 45/70 still has an issue with trajectory when compared with many other cartridges, so the point here is, if taking critters at extended ranges is your game, Well there are just many better cartridges then those of .45 caliber.

I have tested the 465gr WFN cast into the 1900fps range and with my rifle have lots of available head room if I wanted to brake the 2000fps level, but why? The sweet spot for my rifle is at the 1650fps level with this bullet and there is no question as to it's effectiveness.

So, having already seen the error of striving for higher velocities, the results are ever so much better with my 465gr Wide Flat Nose cast at 1650fps, it having proven itself on both deer an elk with of course properly placed shots - same with any cartridge no matter what the bore dia.

So, while I really like the 45/70, I am using a proven load in my #1 that is attainable in a typical modern Marlin rifle and with little to nothing to be gained what is the point of the .450?

Nice rifle if it rings your bell, but won't gain you anything beyond what a properly loaded Marlin 45/70 will do. Other then kick like a mule.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

DSCN0732.JPG 005.JPG
 

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It is only "dead" in that Hornady does not make the 350 grain JFP load. Their best offering in the caliber.
Great reloading caliber. Once you have brass you are set. Only down side is that Hornady makes two different length cases. The cases for the 325 grain LE is shortened in order for the round to cycle through the gun. You just have to use those cases if you reload the 325 grain LE bullet. If you want to load other 45 cal bullets, then you can use the short or the standard cases. Just work up more slowly with the shorter cases and never mix and match.
I like it a bit better than the 45-70 as I think the rimless cartridge cycles smoother from mag tube into chamber. You can tweak just a bit more out of the 450ME than the 45-70. But top end on either is going to give you enough recoil.
 

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Ever since its release, I have had a strong attraction to the Marlin450.
And if I ever have a weak moment, and let loose of my Marlin444, the marlin450 would be next, no matter how dead it may be!
Good to read that you have decided to buy it. I think it will grow on you.

All the best, enjoy.
 

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I have this very rifle in 450marlin. I sold a beautiful Japanese Weatherby MkV in 257 to get it and do not regret for a second the the transaction. The trails end take down is just about my favorite rifle. It is a beautifully engineered, smooth, compact and a very accurate rifle. Recoil is Weatherby like but slower and is manageable, probably due to the to the muzzle brake which is not excessively loud to fellow shooters, and the excellent recoil pad.
The take down function works well and the rifle returns to the same point of aim (according to my bore sighter), although it is not my intention to take it down except for the occasional cleaning.
It is hard to imagine a rifle that is faster, smoother with the same fire power, in such a compact package. I have mounted a scope on it using a Millet mount and Leupold standard rings which do not interfere with the take down function. At the range with my reloads I can comfortably shoot it off a rest using one hand. Groups at 100 metres are usually MOA or a bit better.
As far as ammunition is concerned for me this calibre is strictly for handloading and 100 cases should last the lifetime of the rifle (15-25 reloads) as it is no plinker. Even in Australia where we are on a drip-feed for everything shooting, one can usually get a supply of brass with a little patience. I constantly see plenty of web sites in the USA offering Hornady brass.
The bottom line here is that the 450 Marlin was designed to be a modern replacement for the 45-70 correcting all of the associated problems brought about by the huge rim, which it does admirably. I personally do not feel any worse off as far as a supply of brass is concerned compared to the same issue with my 38-55.
I'm sure there are still plenty of twists and turns in the life of the 450 Marlin
 
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