Marlin Firearms Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am still trying to get my thoughts together on trying my luck at casting for the 45-70 having never casted anything yet.I am pretty much in the biginning stages of picking out the equipment needed to produce a good hunting bullet and sticking with it.I believe I want to stay in the 405 gr. but with a WFN profile and probably for a gas check,haven't decided on the gas check or not though.Who manufactures a mould for this bullet? I will no doubt be sizing them at .460".I was checking out the NOE Ranch Dog mould which is listed as .460", 405gr. RF but that doesn't tell me if that is a WFN. Also,thinking about which lube sizer to go with as I don't think that I want to get into the pan lube process.
Well,I guess this is a start and being new at this,I needed to start somewhere.
Oh, as a side note,I tried the 405 gr. Cast Performance bullet which is listed as WLFN,GC AT .459" They actually grouped very well AT 50 and 100 yards out of my Marlin GG,although at my velocity of around 1500 FPS,they drop about 4 inches at 100 yards,zeroed at 50 yards.I'll probably want to keep my velocity somewhere around 1500 FPS or within shoulder saving velocities.I hate pain the older I get.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,388 Posts
Static Line, I don't have any anymore but I had some from Jerry at 'Carolina Cast' and I recall them to be WFN - though not as much as .379. They shot well too. Might check the old Ranch Dog sight for a diagram. Should be able to locate one somewhere on the web ... Limited to iPhone else I'd send one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,345 Posts
The NOE Ranch dog 350 gas checked is the same WFN nose profile as the 460, and
is plenty heavy for your use. I have 7 other 45/70 molds and this one has become
My favorite go- to mold.
In your alloy, a finished bullet will likely weigh 360-370.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,559 Posts
Static Line,

I'd second your thought of a bullet of 405gr or heavier, and your velocity mid way between 1000 - 2000 fps.

My first cast bullet deer was taken with a 355gr Wide Flat Nose (WFN) starting out at 2300fps and it was a huge over kill!!!!

Much better is my 465gr WFN at 1650fps! Awesome on deer and elk!

Unfortunately, BABore (Bruce) on the Cast Boolit Forum is no longer making molds. Great product!

Lead Bullet Technology (LBT) makes a good mold, almost as good as the one from Bruce.

Then, I rec'd 2 molds from Accurate Molds a couple weeks ago and they are good molds.

Bought one for the .444 - 275gr WFN and a 170gr - .30cal flat nose.

Turn around from Tom at Accurate Molds was good. About 3 weeks on my order. Faster then expected, but that will depend on how busy he is. Tom will answer an "E" question, but it will be brief and to the point. No wasted effort or time for Tom.

With the Ranch Dog molds, avoid the Lee tumble lube style if your using a luber/sizer.

Order molds with lube grooves.

I have never liked the thought of pan lubing or tumble lubing, so avoid that method!!!!!!!!!

White Label Lube makes a good product at a good very good price. I am using their BAC lube in my 45/70.

I have both the RCBS and the Lyman luber/sizer tools.

Both will allow you to seat gas checks or not depending on your bullet design.

My 465gr WFN at the recommendation of the mold maker is cast from 50/50 Wheel Weights/lead, and water quenched as they drop from the hot mold. Then sized with a push through style mold - .460 dia. - and the gas checks seated as soon as possible after casting.

Then again at Bruce's recommendation, the bullets are allowed to age a minimum of 7 day before shooting.

The bullets are lubed in a .461 dia. die in the Lyman or RCBS tool.

With the slightly larger dia. of the final sizer die, that can be done anytime after the first sizing with minimal disturbance of the bullet hardness.

Check with Buckshot on the Cast Boolit Forum for sizer dies made to meet you need and not available from the normal manufacturing sources.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,347 Posts
Ranch Dog's 45-70 bullets measure out with .330" meplat for both weights. That's what Carolina Cast would have been selling.

Beartooth's pile driver versions probably have the widest meplat that will cycle in an 1895. They look like upside down garbage cans.

Wider meplats are nice on smaller calibers and for extreme applications but either way you slice it, with a 45-70 the hole is still going to be at least .460" diameter in whatever you shoot it at. Just sayin'.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SgtDog0311

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks guys for the feed back.I see I have a lot to take in before I jump right in.
And, Crusty Deary Ol'Coot , I went to the Accurate mould sight and the LBT site. I am mind debuggled over all the choices.LBT doesn't seem to have what I want and Accurate has way to many choices.I kinda just went through the bullet designs and think I like the 46-405U with gas check and I don't even know if it will work.It sure has a wide flat nose at .370" dia. I assume the 46 in (46-405 U ) stands for .460 dia. I also see they have a lot of other choices for a metplat size and even a choice of lube grooves.I am lost there. My friend says he has an old Lyman lube=sizer he will let me use. I have some pure lead in ingot form I bought years ago but I don't have any wheel weights nor can I get any. So I must pick from an alloy with the tin and antimony already in it,probably Lyman #2 from what I gather,and from what I have been reading.How to go about mixing,I do not know.Yet.
I also like the NOE mould for the .460-405 gr. RF ,GC, two cavity mould but I see that the metplat is only .330" dia. I guess that is sufficient though.I see that the weight of the bullets are depended upon the mix of the alloys involved so that will be a learning process too and just how to go about it.Again,my Marlin GG slugged out at .4575" bore dia.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ranch Dog's 45-70 bullets measure out with .330" meplat for both weights. That's what Carolina Cast would have been selling.

Beartooth's pile driver versions probably have the widest meplat that will cycle in an 1895. They look like upside down garbage cans.

Wider meplats are nice on smaller calibers and for extreme applications but either way you slice it, with a 45-70 the hole is still going to be at least .460" diameter in whatever you shoot it at. Just sayin'.
Hey thanks,I was still typing when you replied to me about the Ranch Dog bullets so I am right on time getting back to you.I was thinking the same thing as far as the difference in the meplats dimensions.The 45-70 in itself is a pretty big boy and will definetly bring smoke on whatever it hits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,559 Posts
Static Line,

I hear ya about the number of molds offered by Accurate Arms, so I sent an "E" to Tom and he pointed me in the correct direction.

I like molds of at least 4 cavity, so when buying custom molds that is what I buy

Rotometal is one good source for casting alloy.

Then, maybe run an add in some free and local classified places and you might turn up some Linotype.

Linotype - 50/50 or 40/60 with lead will make a good alloy.

My local classified add for pure lead is turning up some, little by little.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Static Line,

I hear ya about the number of molds offered by Accurate Arms, so I sent an "E" to Tom and he pointed me in the correct direction.

I like molds of at least 4 cavity, so when buying custom molds that is what I buy

Rotometal is one good source for casting alloy.

Then, maybe run an add in some free and local classified places and you might turn up some Linotype.

Linotype - 50/50 or 40/60 with lead will make a good alloy.

My local classified add for pure lead is turning up some, little by little.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
I looked at the Rotometal site and see that their #2 Lyman is 90% lead,5%tin and 5% antimony. Do you just melt that as is without adding anything to cast bullets or do you have to add anything else? I do have some 98 or 99% pure lead ingots that I saved over the years as I was going to cast just for my muzzleloaders but never got around to it.As stated,I pretty much want an all around bullet for paper and hunting game such as White Tail.Just trying to keep things as simple as I can.The gas check idea was just in case I went over 1500 fps,which I doubt that I even want to go there.I find anything shot around and over 1600 fps usualy makes me think twice about having a scope on my Marlin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,559 Posts
Static Line,

The Lyman #2 should be good as it comes.

I just hate to see that much tin get wasted.

No doubt it will cast well, but Wheel Weights at a .5% tin or less cast fine.

I find that my RUGER with the 465gr at 1650fps is pretty mild. Much more so then the 355gr at 2300 - 2500fps.

Have a great one!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Could I cut the Lyman #2 with some of the pure lead that I have on hand to save on the tin,something like 50% Lyman #2 and 50%pure lead and make the #2 go farther or isn't that a good idea? Wonder what the BHN would be after water quenching.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Could I just mix 50/50 of the Lyman#2 and the pure lead to make the Lyman #2 ingot go farther and save on the tin or isn't that a good idea? I see that Rotometals has a number of different alloy ingots made up of different percentages of tin and antimony.What is prefered,keeping in mind that I want to acheive the optimum BHN for hunting and no leading.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,559 Posts
Static Line,

You could run the figures and see where they come.

The Lyman cast book shows the following.

Lyman #2 - 90% lead, 5%tin, 5% antimony

Wheel Weights - 95.5% lead, 0.5% Tin, 4% Antimony

Linotype - 86% lead, 3% tin, 11% antimony.

Using the 50/50 alloy of WW/lead I know that cuts the tin way down along with the antimony and it still casts and shoots well.

So, Lyman #2 cut 50/50 with pure lead should be about (?) 95% lead, 2.5% tin, 2.5% antimony, which for many situations should be just fine.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot ,
Thanks for sticking with me on this one.I am understanding the process much more. I may need to find answers for other questions along the way but I know you and others will be there to pull me out of the quick sand. I am going to try and order some reading material so I can do a little of my own homework on this casting hobby and I am sure that I will have more questions along the way.Thanks again.
Static line
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,559 Posts
Soooooo much to learn!

I have cast for YEARS, almost entirely for handguns, and wish I had known what little I think I now know back then.

Starting this 45/70 adventure 5- 6 years ago for hunting with cast bullets has forced the issue in the learning department.

Wish I had started this part of the cast bullet trip much earlier.

Keep asking as we will all keep learning along with you.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top