I agree, .444 ammo is hard to find.... gotta start reloading, its Over Priced at the stores anyways...
Value of my JM 444?
I have noticed that Remlin has not made any .444's for a while now.... therefore supply in demand would "suggest" the value of .444's increase..
Anyways, I have a JM stamped and serial number on my 444 that places it as one of the last JM 444's made before the transition... I was wondering what the estimated value for this rifle is? It is in excellent/new condition, and has had less then 40 rounds fired through it.
Thanks,
Al
Anyways, I have a JM stamped and serial number on my 444 that places it as one of the last JM 444's made before the transition... I was wondering what the estimated value for this rifle is? It is in excellent/new condition, and has had less then 40 rounds fired through it.
Thanks,
Al
21 - 40 of 52 Posts
I agree, .444 ammo is hard to find.... gotta start reloading, its Over Priced at the stores anyways...
.444 ammo in this area is hard to find and averages about fifty dollars for a 20 round box. A friend of mine has been trying to buy my model P outfitter from me ever since I showed it to him and has offered 800 dollars for it but when you figure in the original price I paid for the rifle, the 100 rounds of ammo I have on hand for it, and the scope, sling, and mounts I wouldn't even break even at 800 dollars if I were inclined to sell it, which I am not.
J Pipes,The "pistol" has always been added by people not reading every word of the regs. It has never said "pistol cartridge". In years past when we could only use handguns for our center fire option, it read " pistols that fire a straight walled cartridge" therefore a 444 chambered T/C pistol was 100% legal, and the reason I bought a barrel....right before they announced the proposed changes, that have since passed. So to summarize, it is NOT, and WAS NOT "pistol" cartridges, it IS, and WAS "straight walled" cartridges.
Thank you...........That explains it very well.........Now I can unterstand the added "Grey Matter" in what i've read re: "Pistol" cartridges in Indiana and Ohio........
Thanks Again,
Tom
I feel the same way after I got my "P" I started to sell my 444S but I can't do it.:hmmmm:.444 ammo in this area is hard to find and averages about fifty dollars for a 20 round box. A friend of mine has been trying to buy my model P outfitter from me ever since I showed it to him and has offered 800 dollars for it but when you figure in the original price I paid for the rifle, the 100 rounds of ammo I have on hand for it, and the scope, sling, and mounts I wouldn't even break even at 800 dollars if I were inclined to sell it, which I am not.
I would speculate their are two reasons for the 444 not being in production now...........if their is a demand, how come Marlin is not taking advantage of the market and making money.... I agree with you, 45-70's are everywhere....Good rifles, but everywhere...
First, FGI has all the trouble they can handle just building passable 30-30's..........
Secondly, and this is the "real" reason, IMO............The 444 is the MOST difficult Marlin to get to load smoothly. The Mag Tube Cartridge Clearance Bulge is MUCH different, and LESS forgiving than the 45-70 Bulge.
There is/was only ONE small company in CT that could produce that Mag tube reliabably. They did it with Hard Hydraulic Tooling and a Soft Eurathane plug......Other vendors have tried and failed.
I think the ability to get working, reliable mag tubes in quantities, along with what FGI perceives as the 444 Market demand, with regard to the 45-70's are the reasons the 444 is not being made.
When Marlin North Haven closed, I was working on a Hydraulic Forming Fixture with a heating element, that would form the bulge on a heated 444 tube......... I was about 85% successful, and making changes to the tool, when that activity came to a halt, as things having to do with the closure became more important...........
As the closure got closer, I was told to stop all work , and disgard the whole project to concentrate on other things. and I'm sure all drawings records and details were lost...........
I don't know if that one little CT company maintained a working relationship with Remington. At the time, Remington was pretty arrogant, and took the position they had their own string of NY vendors and didn't really need most of the CT Vendors.
Remington was only interested in things that got rifles "out the door"..........NOT in any uncompleted tools or projects.
Thats my perception re: the lack of new 444's ............but don't blame it all on me!
Tom
Tom; Remington has "killed" a lot of cartridges that have been "standards" over the years...the 450M, the 444 and the 35 Rem to name a few. When they continued production of the 45-70 in lieu of the modern design of the 450M on the updated (strong) Marlin lever gun platform, it was then that I questioned their business plan motives......... As it stands now, it looks like Remington did nothing more than let the bean counters decide the fate of the chamberings that they were going to offer, and because the 30-30 and the 45-70 had the big sales numbers, thats what they decided to go with....it was all about making a quick buck and nothing more. History, tradition, and some very good proprietary cartridges (444 and 450M) were thrown out the window in favor of sales................its really too bad!!!!
I guess in a way, Remington did us a favor though. The value of the 450 M, the 444, and even the 35 Rem will continue to increase..........I have see 444's for sale for 900 to 1100 dollars on some sites, and the sellers are getting the asking price for them!!!!! Remington's "new" production Marlins have had grave issues which makes the old JM's worth more as well. So, thanks Remington.....by your greed and poor quality workmanship, at least I have something that is worth almost twice as much as I paid for it.
I guess in a way, Remington did us a favor though. The value of the 450 M, the 444, and even the 35 Rem will continue to increase..........I have see 444's for sale for 900 to 1100 dollars on some sites, and the sellers are getting the asking price for them!!!!! Remington's "new" production Marlins have had grave issues which makes the old JM's worth more as well. So, thanks Remington.....by your greed and poor quality workmanship, at least I have something that is worth almost twice as much as I paid for it.
Flat Top,
Yes, escentially, I agree with your thinking..........
Re: 444 values...........Based on the available 444's on the used market, I think it is somewhat a seller's market, particularly if the seller has a very good one or a unique one............
Older 444T's will continue to bring good prices due to the earlier workmanship. And 444 Outfitters will be very scarce and hard to find.
Like you and others, I have a 444, and mine is quite unique with lettered provanance...........I really don't see myself selling it too soon.
I suspect 444 Brass will become harder to find just like 35Rem or 218 Bee, but then............Most owners seem to find what they need, and secure a good quantitiyof components in the process.
I'm planning to hunt at least some with my 444 again this coming year with std 240Gr Handloads............unless I get distracted...:hmmmm:..... by a Model 375 that has become a Safe Queen,or the 336ER which has become so reliable in VT..........
Its (MY444) is just a heavier gun now, and I like a lighter carry in VT now ........
Tom
Yes, escentially, I agree with your thinking..........
Re: 444 values...........Based on the available 444's on the used market, I think it is somewhat a seller's market, particularly if the seller has a very good one or a unique one............
Older 444T's will continue to bring good prices due to the earlier workmanship. And 444 Outfitters will be very scarce and hard to find.
Like you and others, I have a 444, and mine is quite unique with lettered provanance...........I really don't see myself selling it too soon.
I suspect 444 Brass will become harder to find just like 35Rem or 218 Bee, but then............Most owners seem to find what they need, and secure a good quantitiyof components in the process.
I'm planning to hunt at least some with my 444 again this coming year with std 240Gr Handloads............unless I get distracted...:hmmmm:..... by a Model 375 that has become a Safe Queen,or the 336ER which has become so reliable in VT..........
Its (MY444) is just a heavier gun now, and I like a lighter carry in VT now ........
Tom
FT... 444 marlins are like good chips... Can't have just one.:tee:
I saw a Winchester 444 for sale last year in unfired condition. But it had that ugly cross bold safety Winchester made for 4 years before canning it, there was no commercial ammo available, AND the asking price was way over what I was willing to pay. ($900 with a nice hard case).
Being that I really don't buy lever guns to collect them, I avoid calibers that do not have commercial ammunition available for it. Not everyone wants to invest in a rifle and then buy a die to make reloads. Reloading supply prices have really gone up and for me it is not worth buying everything I would need to reload.
Collectors have different criteria than others, like me, that primarily want to shoot and enjoy their firearms. So I bought a Marlin Model 1895 45-70. Right now, commercial ammo is the best option for me and I can get 45-70 ammo at fair prices. If the price of reloading comes down under what commercial ammo costs, I would like to learn how to do it. Having the ability to custom make your own ammo has its advantages. But right now I am not in the financial position to buy everything I might like to own.
Mike T.
Being that I really don't buy lever guns to collect them, I avoid calibers that do not have commercial ammunition available for it. Not everyone wants to invest in a rifle and then buy a die to make reloads. Reloading supply prices have really gone up and for me it is not worth buying everything I would need to reload.
Collectors have different criteria than others, like me, that primarily want to shoot and enjoy their firearms. So I bought a Marlin Model 1895 45-70. Right now, commercial ammo is the best option for me and I can get 45-70 ammo at fair prices. If the price of reloading comes down under what commercial ammo costs, I would like to learn how to do it. Having the ability to custom make your own ammo has its advantages. But right now I am not in the financial position to buy everything I might like to own.
Mike T.
Tom; When it comes to 444 brass, I wish that some on here would start annealing.....I have the same rounds that I used for my testing (which was brutal to say the least) with the SG 444 and I still use them to this day. The Remington cases had a bit over 44 firings of hot SG 444 loads through them when they became a bit hard to resize...the were getting brittle....so, I annealed them, the primer pockets were just fine...tight, and now I use them for my heavy brush loads for deer hunting with my Safari 445 grain 50/50 WW/pure lead water quenched 444 "slugs" at 1880 fps. anyway, the cases are just as good as they were when I first started shooting them.....I have never had a case mouth split, an impending head separation...or a loose primer pocket....nothing! even with hot loads, I just dont see that Remington 444 cases can ever be worn out, as long as they are annealed ever so often, and kept in good shape.
As far as 35 Rem cases, that is a different story for me. I get about 8 to 9 reloadings out of a lot in the SG 35 at max loadings (Safari 260 bullet at 2450fps). I have reduced that load to 2385 fps so I expect a few more reloadings, but I am sure not much more than that. I have made 35 Rem cases from 308 Win's and they seem to work well, and when I find some new Rem 308 cases on the shelves I will buy them and turn them in to 35 Rems. The 308 web and case walls are a bit thicker (about 25 to 30% than the 35 Rem cases), but, after a load adjustment I think they should last a lot longer than the 35 Rem OEM cases and I should still be able to get my 2350 fps minimum velocity for the Safari 260 grain bullet. I have not been able to find any 35 Rem cases on the shelves for quite some time, so its time to move on the "Plan B".
It seems that every time a manufacturer drops a cartridge from production that cartridge gets harder and harder to find....regardless of how many of those rifles are still in use....so, I would suggest annealing the 444 brass, and looking for alternatives to form other cartridges in to the cartridge that has been discontinued or where production may be limited. American ingenuity will triumph!!!
As far as 35 Rem cases, that is a different story for me. I get about 8 to 9 reloadings out of a lot in the SG 35 at max loadings (Safari 260 bullet at 2450fps). I have reduced that load to 2385 fps so I expect a few more reloadings, but I am sure not much more than that. I have made 35 Rem cases from 308 Win's and they seem to work well, and when I find some new Rem 308 cases on the shelves I will buy them and turn them in to 35 Rems. The 308 web and case walls are a bit thicker (about 25 to 30% than the 35 Rem cases), but, after a load adjustment I think they should last a lot longer than the 35 Rem OEM cases and I should still be able to get my 2350 fps minimum velocity for the Safari 260 grain bullet. I have not been able to find any 35 Rem cases on the shelves for quite some time, so its time to move on the "Plan B".
It seems that every time a manufacturer drops a cartridge from production that cartridge gets harder and harder to find....regardless of how many of those rifles are still in use....so, I would suggest annealing the 444 brass, and looking for alternatives to form other cartridges in to the cartridge that has been discontinued or where production may be limited. American ingenuity will triumph!!!
rooter; I just have one 444 and one 35........ I am not a collector, just a hunter, and I have found it to be next to impossible to shoot two 444's at once, so, I just carry the one!:flute:
Mike T. The 30-30 is legend, and I really dont think that cartridge will ever die. That is the best choice that anyone can make as far as ammo availability, etc. Some day when the funds are available, I am going to pursue a Safari Grade 30-30 modification, just like I did with the SG 444 and the SG 35 Rem. I think that a high power 30-30 would really be a cool one to have, and although OEM COL's will shoot very well in the SG modified rifles, to get the most from a SG 30-30 modification, well, it would be a reloaders proposition. Here is a photo of the SG 30-30.
The 45-70 is also a good choice....so many out there that if they stopped making factory ammo there would be a revolt!!!!:biggrin:
The 45-70 is also a good choice....so many out there that if they stopped making factory ammo there would be a revolt!!!!:biggrin:
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Flat Top
That's an impressive looking round you posted! I can't imagine having the time or patience to do work like that! At age 66, for me, the best place to find Patience is at the local Hospital!
Anyway, reloading looks like it can be fun and if done properly I would say a sense of accomplishment would be part of the process.
I love my 30-30's. There is usually enough factory ammo available that I can pick and choose. Federal Blue Box is what me and my guns prefer and I buy it up when I can get it.
Mike T.
That's an impressive looking round you posted! I can't imagine having the time or patience to do work like that! At age 66, for me, the best place to find Patience is at the local Hospital!
Anyway, reloading looks like it can be fun and if done properly I would say a sense of accomplishment would be part of the process.
I love my 30-30's. There is usually enough factory ammo available that I can pick and choose. Federal Blue Box is what me and my guns prefer and I buy it up when I can get it.
Mike T.
I have 20 or 30 .444 brass.....once fired.. I should probably sell it to one of yall who need it for reloading.. its a mixture of remington and hornady brass. PM me if interested.
Mike; I am the same age as you.... been reloading since I got my first press and equipment when I was 15 years old... and, I am still using that same equipment today! Reloading equipment will last a lifetime if taken care of... it is a a very interesting and self satisfying hobby, and well worth the initial investment that offers big savings in the long run.Flat Top
That's an impressive looking round you posted! I can't imagine having the time or patience to do work like that! At age 66, for me, the best place to find Patience is at the local Hospital!
Anyway, reloading looks like it can be fun and if done properly I would say a sense of accomplishment would be part of the process.
I love my 30-30's. There is usually enough factory ammo available that I can pick and choose. Federal Blue Box is what me and my guns refer and I buy it up when I can get it.
Mike T.
I was watching tv a minute ago and they showed a promo for the new Godzilla movie. I found myself thinking, You know if a squad of guys armed with .....444's had met that lizard on the beach he'd have got his self back to japan. LOL
Heh.I was watching tv a minute ago and they showed a promo for the new Godzilla movie. I found myself thinking, You know if a squad of guys armed with .....444's had met that lizard on the beach he'd have got his self back to japan. LOL
Bocky
FT... I can shoot four 444's at the same time AND hit all four pigs I was aiming at:tee:
rooter; You sir are a better man than I.............but, some day you will get old like me, and one rifle and one hog is all you will get! Enjoy the good times...they dont last forever!!!
FT... I can shoot four 444's at the same time AND hit all four pigs I was aiming at:tee:
:hmmmm:...........Hummmm,...........I'm gonna' give that some thought.............:hmmmm:............If I wuz younger, I'd hang by my hair and shoot Pigs!.........But then I'd be in trouble, if sumpthin' failed...........:shot:......aside from the hair!
I'm bored now and its showing...........:ahhhhh:
RooterPig, As the old saying goes.............I wuz as good ONCE, as I ever wuz...........:vollkommenauf:............
Its raining here, so I've been working on a project in the cellar...............Now I need a Safari Grade cup of Coffee.......
Tom
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