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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone try .45-70 Government 325gr. Xtreme Hunter Solid Monolithic Hunting Ammo. They’re the Leheigh Defense copper solids. I've been shooting Underwood ammo for many years and find it hot and reliable, but never in my lever guns. Thinking about this one for black bears in thick timber.
 

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I am a fan of Underwood. That said, I'm not sure that on a black bear, hog or deer that the Lehigh bullets would work any better than an appropriate hard cast (which they coat with a proprietary coating) or even good SP bullet. My observations are that they are also much more pricey as well.
 
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I've shot a number of black bears with my 45-70. While virtually any .458 bullet will work, my favorite is the no-frills Speer 400gr JFP. They expand reliably but don't fragment. I have yet to actually catch one in a bear. I did recover one in a large boar hog. It remained fully intact and had expanded to 90 caliber after penetrating heavy shields on both sides of the hog and lodging in the hide.

If you prefer something lighter and faster, the 300gr Barnes TSX bullet is hard to beat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I should have been more clear in my original post. I have to use non-lead ammo for hunting because of my stupid State laws. My only other option are the Barnes hollow points which I have also, but don’t know how they perform on game.
 
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The Barnes .45-70 TSX bullets are great in the 250 gr and 300gr weights. I have used them for Deer and Black Bear. I used the 25o gr for Deer and 300 gr for Black Bear. They are a great bullet. Once you use them you will understand, they are accurate and perform as advertised. Too expensive for plinkers, but great hunting bullets. I hope you can find some to try.
Have a great day.
Jim
 

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I should have been more clear in my original post. I have to use non-lead ammo for hunting because of my stupid State laws. My only other option are the Barnes hollow points which I have also, but don’t know how they perform on game.
The Barnes 300TSX is an excellent choice for the 45-70 and black bears. They are very accurate in my Marlin with H4198. I shoot them at 2,000 ft/sec but they can be shot faster if there was a reason to do so. I shot a 300lb bear with one and the bullet went through his shoulder and lodged in his spine. He flipped onto his back and couldn't move. He would have died in short order but I put another one into him to avoid any suffering.

Another option is Hornady's monoflex bullets, an all copper alternative. Lately I've been experimenting with them in the 45-70 and the 458SOCOM. In an 18.5" Marlin bbl, using their 250gr monofleex, I get 2,330 ft/sec with AA1680. I shot a nice buck with it last fall. The buck was hit broadside at just over 100yds. The buck ran about 35-40yds and fell over dead. The bullet had exited.

There are good options out there even for guys in the lead prohibited states.
 

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With regard to your state's regressive laws, are the non-lead bullets required to be expanding, as well?
Many monolithic bullets are not intended to mushroom.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
With regard to your state's regressive laws, are the non-lead bullets required to be expanding, as well?
Many monolithic bullets are not intended to mushroom.
No. There’s no giving a crap about the lethality of the projectile, just as long as some scavenger doesn’t get lead poisoning from eating the carcass.

Also, I’m motivated now to try the Barnes out based on Charlie-NY’s experience with them.
 

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I shoot the Hornady 250g. Monoflex bullets in my GS (43.5gr. IMR4198). They're very, very accurate-1 ragged hole a 54 yds. with 5 rounds. The recoil is pleasant and deadly on deer, big hole going in and a bigger hole leaving. Just my experience and 2 cents.
 

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Also, I’m motivated now to try the Barnes out based on Charlie-NY’s experience with them.
Starline case - Fed 210 primer - H4198 @ 2,000 ft/sec = 1" groups at 100yds.

Full expansion can be expected at any distance you'd use a 45-70. I only caught one in a big bear after going through quite a bit of bone. Shoot critters behind the shoulder and you will never recover one. LOL

BTW - I noticed less recoil with this load than with several of my others.

The bruin in my avatar was shot in Newfoundland with another of my favorite bullets, the Speer 400gr JFN.
 

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I am a fan of Underwood. That said, I'm not sure that on a black bear, hog or deer that the Lehigh bullets would work any better than an appropriate hard cast (which they coat with a proprietary coating) or even good SP bullet. My observations are that they are also much more pricey as well.
I have some Underwood ammo using the Lehigh defense bullet for use in a couple of handguns. The one thing that's interesting about the bullet (to me) is that the head of it looks like a blunt Philips head screwdriver. I remember reading some data regarding one of the rounds, and the spin created by the barrel rifling is actually what makes it a very effective round. It essentially acts like a 63,000 RPM meat auger when it strikes, and since it's solid copper, it continues to bore and auger fairly deep into the target, making one heckuva wound channel.

The imagery from that description always stuck with me, and it's my primary personal defense choice in the winter months when I don't want a hollow point getting plugged up by outerwear and not penetrating enough to stop a threat. I suspect that it would perform incredibly well on larger game for the same reason, particularly if you use or load up one of the heavier 305 grain Xtreme Penetrator bullets. I'd sure as shyte hate to get shot with one!
 
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