[DWB]

Well, I got my 1895CB out of layaway the other day. Stripped it down to the frame, got it all cleaned it up (boy... Was it ever filthy), smoothed some of the hitches out of the action, then tried to slug the bore.

Using a pure lead Maxi-Ball for a .50 cal, tapped one into the lead off the chamber then tapped it back out. Measuring carefully, I am coming up with a 0.456" nominal diameter.

Either my calipers are crapped out, or this the tightest bore of any of my Marlins. Granted, I have only one .45-70, so don't have anything to compare this to, but my .444 slugged at 0.430, as did my 1894 .44 mag. My 336 in .35 Remington slugged at 0.357" diameter, IIRC.

For those of you with more .45-70 experience, what have your bores slugged at? If no body has any that slugged this tight, I think I may need to get a new set of calipers.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Rowdy]

DWB – You got a CB ;D

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,85450.0.html

 

[DWB]

Rowdy,

Thanks for the link. That was a prety interesting read.

Sounds like my 1895 Cowboy is right on par with what others have posted, my calipers are O.K., and that I can start working with some 0.458" (or even 0.459") cast bullets pretty soon. I keep reading about 24.0 grains (or thereabouts) of Alliant 2400 and 350 to 400 gr plain based bullets for a "soft" loading. I am looking forward to trying some of those - - if nothing else, from the standpoint of economics.

Oh, boy... This is going to be a fun (but busy) spring. Soon as it gets above 10* here, I will be out shooting for fun again (maybe this weekend). ;D

 

[Wade505]

DWB,

My 2009 production Guide Gun slugged at .4563". This is not the firtst time I've seen this. Several others have bores in the "tight" range. Cast rounds sized to .457" and made of very soft mix are perfect for my weapon.....I've used sizes as high as .459" without any problem, but the softies I cast work best in .457".

That load you mentioned of 2400 with a 350-400 slug is good, but please be sure to use some sort of wad in there. It has been my experience over the past 45 years of loading this catridge is that never, and I mean NEVER have a reduced load that is not held close to the primer area. Too often a load of say 24 gr. of 2400 or so, will move close to the front of the cartridge and when fired, it will flash and cause a detonation. Loud report, scorched cases, and such are sure signs of this problem. So, PLEASE use a wad of your choice with this loading!!! This is not a wives tale, but from personal expierence and it is NOT FUN!

Take care, Wade

 

[DWB]

... That load you mentioned of 2400 with a 350-400 slug is good, but please be sure to use some sort of wad in there...

Would a tuft of dacron over the powder charge suffice, or is there additional stuff required as well? I have heard of some using "cards" of some sort in addition to tufts of dacron or pillow ticking or whatever the big bags from the fabric stores are called.

I was thinking those Dardas 350 gr cast, BB, RNFP bullets sized to 0.458" (0.002" over measured bore size) would be just the ticket for this type of load, and I could tweak the powder as needed to keep things in the 1,100 to 1,300 fps neighborhood, depending on what velocity will produce the best accuracy. Is there a rule of thumb for how much dacron, etc. to put on the powder column?

I have never farted around with reduced loads in a rifle cartridge before, so I am climbing a hill with a learning curve.

Appreciate all the info I can get.

 

[eaglesnest]

Would a tuft of dacron over the powder charge suffice, or is there additional stuff required as well? I have heard of some using "cards" of some sort in addition to tufts of dacron or pillow ticking or whatever the big bags from the fabric stores are called.

I was thinking those Dardas 350 gr cast, BB, RNFP bullets sized to 0.458" (0.002" over measured bore size) would be just the ticket for this type of load, and I could tweak the powder as needed to keep things in the 1,100 to 1,300 fps neighborhood, depending on what velocity will produce the best accuracy. Is there a rule of thumb for how much dacron, etc. to put on the powder column?

I have never farted around with reduced loads in a rifle cartridge before, so I am climbing a hill with a learning curve.

Appreciate all the info I can get.

I haven't used Dardas with my 45/70 but like them in my 1894 44 and now 45 Colt. They are a real good value for a reduced load as you are talking about. Good to see they are now offering their 45/70 bullets with different sizes.. May have to order some too!

 

[Rowdy]

I keep reading about 24.0 grains (or thereabouts) of Alliant 2400 and 350 to 400 gr plain based bullets for a "soft" loading. I am looking forward to trying some of those - - if nothing else, from the standpoint of economics.

DWB - that's the "Dr. A" load ;D ;D And it is a good one.

Before we open this big can-o-worms on - "detonation" - from a light or downloaded charge of powder. and the use of fillers.
In the Reloading Forum - 35remington and papajohn have written about detonation and KB's large...maybe try to get swany in also...

 

[DWB]

DWB - that's the "Dr. A" load ;D ;D And it is a good one.

Before we open this big can-o-worms on - "detonation" - from a light or downloaded charge of powder. and the use of fillers.
In the Reloading Forum - 35remington and papajohn have written about detonation and KB's large...maybe try to get swany in also...

Yup... Reading Dr.A's thread is what prompted me to get off my arse and get the throat slugged, especially after seeing the Dardas boolit. One of these days, I might get time to get back into casting, but for now will be satisfied to purchase. If I get some spare time, I will slip over to the reloading forum this weekend and do some searching on secondary detonations and the potential for KB's.

There was a time when secondary detonations were a happy thing for me. Of course, that was about thirty years ago, and none of them were in my face or next to my trigger hand, per se.

 

[Rowdy]

There was a time when secondary detonations were a happy thing for me.

secondary detonation much better than say - a premature detonation : ;D ;D ;D

 

[DWB]

secondary detonation much better than say - a premature detonation : ;D ;D ;D

Never been around a premature detonation, but knew a guy or two that had. And, before you say it - - not that kind of premature detonation, but the kind that actually go boom.

Knew one fellow that was around a preamy caused by a lightning strike - - whenever serious clouds would roll in on us, he would start to twitch like a dog crapping out a peach pit. ;D Wasn't funny to him, but it sure was to the rest of us... : When he got nervous enough to feel the urge to clear out, the rest of us weren't too far behind him. They say lightning never strikes the same place twice - - like next to ol' Beak (as we used to call him) - - but we weren't about to tempt fate either. Those were some good times though. :

 

[STARDATE2010]

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm
Check out this site for 2400 load data as well as others.

 

[w5cds]

They say lightning never strikes the same place twice...

Dunno 'bout the same place, but it'll sure strike the same PERSON twice! Have a friend who's been hit twice now (was there for the first time), and I seem to remember a park ranger from Yosemite (I think) who was hit over a dozen times before he retired (and a few times after)! Yikes!

 

[Wade505]

DWB,

Back in the mid 60's I started loading with 2400 in my old Trapdoors and an original Sharps. I was strictly BP with the Sharps for the most part, but in the TD's I was using 10 to 12 gr. of Unique and 20 to 21 gr. of 2400. Now then there was no advice on wadding in cartridges. And I never had any detonation either. Flash to last year when I got my GG. The very same loads that I used with 21 or so of 2400 and about every 3rd round was BLASTING a huge ball of flame and sounded like a French 75mm field piece! The cases were scorched and it was NOT a pleasent time!

Using a 3/4" X 3/4" square of darcon poked down atop your load of 2400 would keep the powder in place and this problem will never be yours. I've even used a small amount of toilet tissue to hold powder in place. Remember that using a wad be it dacron or anyother material will increase your chamber pressure by as much as 2K or better if you don't start your loads with a wad while working them up. If you start loading without the wad and put one in later, you'll increase your chamber pressure. So, use the wad while working up your loads and you'll be just fine! Take it from a guy that has had a love affair with the 45-70 for years and it's still going on! ;D But seriously, use the wad with reduced loads and avoid the problems I had last year.

Enjoy your cannon my friend!!!


Wade

 

[eaglesnest]

Then there are powders that are made bulky for reduced loads. I haven't as of yet tried Trail Boss for my 45/70 but intend to one of these days. I have had good luck and accuracy with 5744, can load it pretty mellow and doesn't seem to be position sensitive that I have noticed..

 

[Wade505]

Trail Boss is just about all I use now for smokless loads in the 45-70. 15.7 gr. behind a Lee 340 RNFP is THE most accruate round that I have ever fired in my GG! Doesn't fair as well with a 405RN Ideal, but then again I usually use BP or a sub for that one anyway. But yes, Trail Boss is fantastic in this caliber for good easy loads that hit tight. In fact, that load mentioned above is the load that I hunt hogs with at work. All one shot stops! ;D

As to the detonation issue I had with 2400, if I elevated the muzzle way high before I shot, no problem. If I locked and loaded with the weapon level or lowered it and then shot. BOOM! It would detonate and scare the daylights outta me and anyone nearby!

Wade