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I have no idea why an experienced hunter wants a load that’s 2” high at 50 and 4” low at 100. I guess if you’re hunting in the open and you don’t have to find a hole at an unknown range to squeeze one through on a quick shot it works great. I’m not saying it’s not doable, I’m just saying it’s not for me as I don’t consider a 6” change in trajectory in 50yds optimum.

Different strokes I guess


My main load is a 405 at 1511fps

1/2” high at 50
dead on at 75
1.5” low at 100

Thats pretty optimum for 100yds and in woods shooting for me. It will have more recoil than the 1000fps load though.
 

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A 452" bullet shot from a 45 colt at 900-1000fps has killed many deer and put many men in a pine box. A heavier .458 bullet shot from a 45-70 at the same speed will have similar results except that is will penetrate through the backstop further.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
i picked up some 405 cast projectiles yesterday. any way to determine at how many feet per second they'll reliably expand?
 

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Wayneo,

I agree with Bearcat, subsonic velocity will not be enough to expand the jacketed HP bullet with any authority unless you hit big bones. However, there may be a cast bullet option you may want to consider.

GT Bullets has a good selection of pills for the 45-70 with hollow points and he uses an alloy that is soft enough to expand.

Here are two examples. I have ordered several different calibers and designs over the years. All were high quality. Much better than any other mfg I have used. Also, this could be a good reason to start casting your own. If you cast you can dial down the hardness to 30-1 and have a quick expanding flat point bullet at subsonic speeds.

View attachment 833408 View attachment 833409

I love GTBullets and have loaded both the 400-gr RNFP w/ GC and the 425-gr WNFP plain base. I ordered another 250each of the 400-gr on 10/23/20 and they are as of yesterday shipping orders from 10/9. So great company and great bullets, but be prepared to wait around 3 or 4-mo for order to drop on your doorstep...
 

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I love GTBullets and have loaded both the 400-gr RNFP w/ GC and the 425-gr WNFP plain base. I ordered another 250each of the 400-gr on 10/23/20 and they are as of yesterday shipping orders from 10/9. So great company and great bullets, but be prepared to wait around 3 or 4-mo for order to drop on your doorstep...
I've become a big fan of GT boolits myself in the last 6-8 months. My latest order was first week of November (500 boolits - 2 varieties), just about the time they really hit the shipping delay stump. Hope to see mine, at least, by mid February.

jd
 

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thanks all for the feedback. i've only ever shot jacketed rounds out of my guide gun. i live in close proximity to mastercast (cast bullet maker in western pa). i was planning on picking up some of his cast bullets for reloading. any issues switching back and forth between cast and jacketed?
wayne,

My experiences and feedback are more related to your rifle barrel. If you have microgroove rifling and want to shoot case, use a gas check design. If your barrel has traditional ballard rifling, wide grooves, you can shoot plain base or gas check.

As long as you are cleaning after every shooting, you should not have an issue. I do not suggest combining cast and jacketed in the same range day. The cleanup can be more difficult.
 
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I don’t use TB but Red Dot or Unique under a Lyman/Ideal Gould 456122 cast HP works great at around 1100 to 1300. More to the point it was designed to work at those velocities. I get mine from Maplewood Bullets cast at 11 BH
 

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If one is wondering about whether their projie is expanding or not all the have to do is st a piece of cardboard at least 5 feet behind a gallon jug of water.
Shoot through the jug and observe the size of the hole in the cardboard. Fragmentation will also be recorded.
One might be surprised at the explosive effect that projie on the jug of water whether it expands or not.
I have never tried Red Dot in the 45-70, what's a reasonable load or source for that powder and loading data?
 

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If one is wondering about whether their projie is expanding or not all the have to do is st a piece of cardboard at least 5 feet behind a gallon jug of water.
Shoot through the jug and observe the size of the hole in the cardboard. Fragmentation will also be recorded.
One might be surprised at the explosive effect that projie on the jug of water whether it expands or not.
I have never tried Red Dot in the 45-70, what's a reasonable load or source for that powder and loading data?
 

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I wouldn't use TrailBoss for ANYTHING myself for many reasons but I sure ain't loading any hunting rounds with it.
 

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If one is wondering about whether their projie is expanding or not all the have to do is st a piece of cardboard at least 5 feet behind a gallon jug of water.
Shoot through the jug and observe the size of the hole in the cardboard. Fragmentation will also be recorded.
One might be surprised at the explosive effect that projie on the jug of water whether it expands or not.
I have never tried Red Dot in the 45-70, what's a reasonable load or source for that powder and loading data?
I just got turned onto “The Load” and using Red Dot. With my 405 grain Hunter Supply bullets and the recommended 13 grains of Red Dot, yesterday I averaged 1349 FPS from my 26” Cowboy. It was much better velocity than the GMDR website referenced above (great sight by the way). I also tried green dot but the accuracy was not as good.
 

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Although I have never gotten a deer with my 45-70, I believe that it comes down to bullet selection. This video made a believer in low velocity performance on deer.
 

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Although I have never gotten a deer with my 45-70, I believe that it comes down to bullet selection. This video made a believer in low velocity performance on deer.
awesome videoand I gotta say I'm a believer too. I also just remembered why I wanted to go to ACE the other day 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️😂😂😂

you think you'll try out the trail boss?

also, just gotta say that that guy can make a good video, did a swell job of talking about the gun and ammo he used and man, you gotta love an awesome kill shot 😂 maybe it's just me but I love seeing the gore!
 

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The Socom in .458 is awesome. I load mine to around 1800 FPS with the Barns 300gr Socom bullet. I would think it would be a great hog rifle.
Have a great day.
Jim
 

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I suspect the OP is wanting a reduced recoil load for deer by asking about TB.

Try AA5744 powder for that. Still plenty of thump for whitetails and very pleasant to just shoot a bunch
I use 5744 in mine with 300 grain jacketed and 325 grain cast. Works very well.
 

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I suspect the OP is wanting a reduced recoil load for deer by asking about TB.

Try AA5744 powder for that. Still plenty of thump for whitetails and very pleasant to just shoot a bunch
I use 5744 in mine with 300 grain jacketed and 325 grain cast. Works very well.
If you cannot find 5744, my experience with Shooter’s World Buffalo Rifle is the same powder but much less expensive.

I have mentioned before, I shoot 425 grain GT bullets with 14.5 grains of TrailBoss and I love it. It is just a hair over 1200FPS from my 1895 Cowboy.

I also shoot “The Load” (13 gr of Red Dot) designed by Ed Harris and a 405 grain cast at 1345 FPS from the same Cowboy. It is almost as accurate as the TrailBoss load. Super cheap and very pleasant to shoot.

I love the amazing versatility of the 45-70.
 

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If you cannot find 5744, my experience with Shooter’s World Buffalo Rifle is the same powder but much less expensive.
Thinking I've heard that said before. Good to know.

I bought 3 pounds of 5744 this past weekend. 2 pounds at one place was $38 each, the other pound was $41 and they wouldn't let me buy 2. Yeah, expensive.

Nobody around me for 100 miles carries shooters world. I'll have to keep an eye on MidSouth Shooter's Supply in Tennessee. I know they deal a lot of it.
 

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A 405gr "hard" cast lead FP over a full load of Trail Boss will poke a hole clear through a hog. No, it won't expand. Or - I expect it won't because I have yet to find a used one. But we are talking about a .458 hole here ...

Having grown up in a muzzle loader only state, I'm always amazed when someone thinks they can't hunt with a "cowboy" load. I accomplished an awful lot of clean kills with 45-50 cal round balls. They are quite light by comparison.

The .45-70 was originally a BP cartridge. A full load of TB is pretty close to the same velocity. I believe they took a few "Buffalo" with those old slow BP loads.
 

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They will come with lube on them. I prefer powder coated if I can get them but Missouri bullets are about the only commercial powdered coated I know of.
Bearcat,

Try Steel Valley Casting out pf PA. They have 45-70 coated 405s immediately available $60/250. They are not His, but I think they would expand with reasobale velocities (1150-1250). I have been using their 9mm 125s with good results. Just ordered 1000 more on Saturday.

Regards,

Kris
 
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