[wayneo73]

i've been using trailboss for some plinking loads. if i could get 1000 fps using TB and 350 grain JHP's, would that be a suitable hunting load for whitetails - <100 yd shots.

 

[Bearcat 74]

I wouldn’t want that because I don’t think you’d get any expansion. If Im shooting jacketed I want it to open.

The TB load with a WFN cast would work but your trajectory would be like a mortar out to 100yds.

 

[wayneo73]

hodgdon load data doesn't list 350 grain bullets and trailboss. but 14 grains of TB under 385 grain bullet produces 1075 fps. according to a kinetic energy calculator, 350 grains moving at 1000 fps would only produce 777 ft lbs of energy. the max load on the hodgdon site calls for 16 grains. that's producing 1142 f/s in a 385 grain bullet... a 350 should be north of 1200 feet per second. that pushes the kinetic energy to >1000 ft lbs. should be good for deer, right?

 

[wayneo73]

I wouldn’t want that because I don’t think you’d get any expansion. If Im shooting jacketed I want it to open.

The TB load with a WFN cast would work but your trajectory would be like a mortar out to 100yds.

ok, thanks. back to the drawing board.

 

[Panbolio]

I shot a hog with a 400 grain Speer and a minimal load of trailBoss. It chronographed at 878 FPS out of my H&R HandiI shot the hog at 45 yards broadside. It entered and exited not only that hog but the hog behind it. Complete pass through of both hogs. Both just laid down and kicked a couple of times.

My Cowboy 1895 likes 15 grains and a 405 cast.

My GBL likes the same 15 grains of Trailboss and a 425 GT Cast.

You get it going about 1100 FPS your bullet path is about 2” high to 2” low out to 100 yards. It works.

 

[packard]

I don't know about 350 gr JHP, but a 405 gr JHP at 1000 fps will penetrate 14 1 gal milk jugs and keep on going.

A 80 yd zero will put you 2" high at 50 yds and 3" low at 100 yds.

A jacketed SP will flatten out at impact and look like a WFN cast.

And yes, it will take down deer. The bullet will have complete penetration.

All of the above is from personal experience. Panbolio is right is right on.

 

[PoopDeckPappy]

i've been using trailboss for some plinking loads. if i could get 1000 fps using TB and 350 grain JHP's, would that be a suitable hunting load for whitetails - <100 yd shots.

Wayneo,

I agree with Bearcat, subsonic velocity will not be enough to expand the jacketed HP bullet with any authority unless you hit big bones. However, there may be a cast bullet option you may want to consider.

GT Bullets has a good selection of pills for the 45-70 with hollow points and he uses an alloy that is soft enough to expand.

Here are two examples. I have ordered several different calibers and designs over the years. All were high quality. Much better than any other mfg I have used. Also, this could be a good reason to start casting your own. If you cast you can dial down the hardness to 30-1 and have a quick expanding flat point bullet at subsonic speeds.

 

[mr surveyor]

Wayneo,

I agree with Bearcat, subsonic velocity will not be enough to expand the jacketed HP bullet with any authority unless you hit big bones. However, there may be a cast bullet option you may want to consider.

GT Bullets has a good selection of pills for the 45-70 with hollow points and he uses an alloy that is soft enough to expand.

Here are two examples. I have ordered several different calibers and designs over the years. All were high quality. Much better than any other mfg I have used. Also, this could be a good reason to start casting your own. If you cast you can dial down the hardness to 30-1 and have a quick expanding flat point bullet at subsonic speeds.

View attachment 833408 View attachment 833409

I don't own or shoot a 45/70, but I can vouch for GT Bullets. I bought my first batch of 500 for .357 mag back in the early summer - immediately fell in love with them. The next month I ordered 100 count samples of both .44 mag and 30-30 and got hooked. My latest order was less than half what it should have been but was the first of November, just before GT announced a long wait time. I'm due to get this order of .44 mag and 30-30 bullets around the first of February .... I hope. I believe that PDP is right on the spot recommending them, and if you're dead set on a Trail Boss load to push them, you'll probably be able to find something that works.


jd

 

[PoopDeckPappy]

I don't own or shoot a 45/70, but I can vouch for GT Bullets. I bought my first batch of 500 for .357 mag back in the early summer - immediately fell in love with them. The next month I ordered 100 count samples of both .44 mag and 30-30 and got hooked. My latest order was less than half what it should have been but was the first of November, just before GT announced a long wait time. I'm due to get this order of .44 mag and 30-30 bullets around the first of February .... I hope. I believe that PDP is right on the spot recommending them, and if you're dead set on a Trail Boss load to push them, you'll probably be able to find something that works.


jd

jd,

Like you, I ordered several samples before getting a larger quantity. Both of the 32-20 hollow points are great, 115 and 100 gr. I still have a gas check bullet mold for the 32-20 and have sold the others. His quality is that good. The 148gr 38/357 swc hp and 45 ACP 180 hp target are also great. I also like that I can order as cast without lube. I can size to my need and use a softer lube mix that works better than the hard crayon lube all have to use to hold up in shipping.

My last 500 order was for the 130 gr HP 30 cal. I shoot them in a 30-06, 30-30, and 30 carbine T/C Contender pistol.

 

[mr surveyor]

jd,

Like you, I ordered several samples before getting on a larger quantity. Both of the 32-20 hollow points are great, 115 and 100 gr. I still have a gas check bullet mold for the 32-20 and have sold the others. His quality is that good. The 148gr 38/357 swc hp and 45 ACP 180 hp target are also great. I also like that I can order as cast without lube. I can size to my need and use a softer lube mix that works better than the hard crayon lube all have to use to hold up in shipping.

My last 500 order was for the 130 gr HP 30 cal. I shoot them in a 30-06, 30-30, and 30 carbine T/C Contender pistol.

PDP,
Being currently all but confined to shooting long guns off the bench, I've really gotten hooked on cast boolits in the lever guns. For the last 3 years, thanks to some of my favorite internetsuperhighy enablers, the mixture of cast boolits pushed with pistol powders has become addictive. That GT 150 gr HP gas checked bullet with a proper dose of AA#7 will amazingly shoot MOA groups at 1700 fps at 50 yds, closer to 1-1/2 moa at 100 yds, from my 30-30. Not having a 45-70, I won't have the satisfaction of tinkering with it, but I sure would like to hear a success story of a GT bullet load in a 45-70.

I wish I'd had the funds at the time to go ahead and order 1000 of both the 44 boolits and the 30-30 boolits .... might as well add 1k 357 bullets to that wish list too since we're looking at a minimum of 3 month wait time.


jd

 

[PoopDeckPappy]

PDP,
Being currently all but confined to shooting long guns off the bench, I've really gotten hooked on cast boolits in the lever guns. For the last 3 years, thanks to some of my favorite internetsuperhighy enablers, the mixture of cast boolits pushed with pistol powders has become addictive. That GT 150 gr HP gas checked bullet with a proper dose of AA#7 will amazingly shoot MOA groups at 1700 fps at 50 yds, closer to 1-1/2 moa at 100 yds, from my 30-30. Not having a 45-70, I won't have the satisfaction of tinkering with it, but I sure would like to hear a success story of a GT bullet load in a 45-70.

I wish I'd had the funds at the time to go ahead and order 1000 of both the 44 boolits and the 30-30 boolits .... might as well add 1k 357 bullets to that wish list too since we're looking at a minimum of 3 month wait time.


jd

jd,

I want to make sure I support the cast bullet enabler team. If you think you like pistol powder for rifle cartridges, you should try a few shotgun powders. All of these are dual purpose for shotgun and pistol. They also work extremely well in hyphenated rifle cartridges. Unique, Herco, and Blue-Dot or IMR Blue. My personal favorite of the three is Herco. It has more bulk per grain. Shotgun powders are designed to burn completely at lower pressures and are bulky taking up more space per grain of weight. Just the thing for reduced loads with cast bullets. Oh, and easy to ignite as well.

Here are a few Herco use examples. 357 rifle, 215gr plain base bullet, 5.0 gr, 1,050 fps. Same 5.0 gr for 155gr, 190 gr, and 205 gr plain base bullets with standard small pistol primers. The 155 gr is moving at 22 lr high velocity, 1,200 fps. The others are all subsonic. Also very accurate loads. For 30 carbine T/C pistol 4.8-5.0 gr for 135gr and 170 gr. For the 30-30 Unique and Herco both work well for me in the 8-10 gr range base on bullet weight. A Berry's 110 gr 30 carbine plated bullet in the 30-30 with 10 gr of Unique runs at 1,750 from my 26" barrel. If I want more velocity, IMR-Blue has also performed well.

I use Herco enough to purchase in the 8# bottle. Over 90% of my shooting is with cast bullets.

 

[wayneo73]

thanks all for the feedback. i've only ever shot jacketed rounds out of my guide gun. i live in close proximity to mastercast (cast bullet maker in western pa). i was planning on picking up some of his cast bullets for reloading. any issues switching back and forth between cast and jacketed?

 

[Bearcat 74]

I trade back and forth between jacketed and cast without issues. I don’t even clean if swapping between the two.


Others have had different results.


Those GT bullets are n my 2021 buy list.

 

[wayneo73]

do i need to lube cast bullets to reload/shoot?

 

[Bearcat 74]

They will come with lube on them. I prefer powder coated if I can get them but Missouri bullets are about the only commercial powdered coated I know of.

 

[wayneo73]

here's what i'm looking at - 45-70 FP(20-1 Available)

i didn't see anything about lube... i'll dig through the site.

 

[Bearcat 74]

At the bottom it states non-sticky lube, but you may want to call them

Hard Cast Bullets

 

[Rollingblock]

The bullets the OP is looking at are lubed.

While I’ve used TrailBoss in my .45-70s I prefer BlueDot for reduced loadings. I can safely exceed TB velocities by a few hundred fps still with low recoil and goid accuracy. As for the ‘trajectory like a mortar’ comment, a 300-350 grain bullet going 1000 fps will have a trajectory like a .22 RF. I don’t know about you, but for my entire life I’ve had no problems hitting squirrels etc at 100 yards with one of my 22RF rifles....




.

 

[Bearcat 74]

With a scope a 350 @ 1000fps is roughly 2.5” high at 25, 4” high at 50 3” high at 75 and dead on at 100yds

if you change to a 50yd zero it’s 8” low at 100yds.

I shoot hs6 with 300’s at 1100ish FPS and at 100yds holding on the top of a 12” steel plate will put you near the bottom of a 12” plate.


I consider 8” of drop in 50yds a bit much for hunting.


Congrats on the squirrels?

 

[Rollingblock]

Why would any experienced hunter zero such a load in at 50 or 100 yards? Sighted in 2” high at 50 yards prints 4” low at 100 yards. Since the OP wanted to hunt at under 100 yards this trajectory would be fine for him.

I guess one has to understand how trajectory works in order to figure out how to sight-in optimally.....


.