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Discussion Starter #1
I just went to the desert last Sunday and spent four hours dispensing lead.

We had targets at 50/100/200/300 yards and I simply pulled out my new 336 30-30 with factory open sights, loaded it and with the forth shot hit the 200 yard 6"x8" plate! I believe I would have hit it sooner and more frequent if it was not for the wind going from 10 to gusts of 30 mph and pushing me around.

At 200yrds, the 30-30 was only indenting the steel place approx. 1/8 at best! Really, how much penetration will the 30-30 get past 150?

My friend has a scope on his and suggested that I should do the same.

I personally do not believe a scope fits well on a lever action rifle. This is simply form/function. I am in the process of modding a tang sight to fit.

My question is do I really need to scope a rifle that a 200yrd shoot is questionable because of low SD of the 30-30? Oh I forgot to mention that my vision is 20/15.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd_vs_game_weight.htm
 

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well personally i have never liked scopes on lever guns, just don't seem right to me. My suggestion is maybe get a good set of peep sights or ghost rings or something along that line (skinner, williams etc, other on here know more than me)and just practice with your rifle so you know your limitations.
 

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Denting a steel plate at 200 yards is a good indication it has plenty to dent a white tail to death. ;D

If I had 20-15 vision none of my leverguns would have a scope.
 

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While I agree that scopes take away from the looks and handling of a levergun, as my eyes got older, I finally resigned myself to try one on a 336. As a pure hunting gun I love it. Its a lot easier to see at early morning and late evening while in the woods.
On bright sunny days at the shooting range I do ok with open sights on paper or steel. But if I'm going out for fur I want a scoped rifle. Do what I did and get one of each. The best of both worlds.
B.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
swany said:
Denting a steel plate at 200 yards is a good indication it has plenty to dent a white tail to death. ;D

If I had 20-15 vision none of my leverguns would have a scope.
Swany,

Concerning game at 200 yrds; a white tail yes and a 200lb plus pig no?? Does this seem reasonable? I just want to know the "safe/successful limitation" of this caliper.

Thanks,
~PD
 

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With my eyeballs growing older, and less sharp, as the years go by, I've resigned myself to using scopes on most of my rifles. The only ones I have now that are not scoped are my waffle tops, and they have receiver sights mounted for use at the range. If I have plenty of time for aiming, I can get by at 50 yards pretty well. I might even try it at 100. It's been a lot of years since I had 20/15 vision.
 

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I yanked my scope off my 30-30 a couple of weeks ago. It's just so much more fun and natural to shoot without the scope. The 270 and 7 mag both have scopes and that seems fitting.
 

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Do I like the looks of a scope on a levergun? Not so much, but I have them on most of my rifles for the same reason others have given. I see much better through a scope and the deer deserve to be harvested a cleanly and quickly as possible.
 

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Perhaps a case can be made that a lever action rifle "looks better" without a scope. In my case I am more interested in maximizing the performance of my 336's, and in taking advantage of the few seconds I have to make a shot at deer, than I am in how they look. I do most of my hunting in very thick cover, where quite often the deer give me a few seconds at most to get a good look at them, and make a shot. To me there is no question that I can make a quicker indentification of whether a deer is legal (we can't shoot spikes here), and make an accurate shot with a good scope. I also think, even though others may disagree, that in most instances a person can shoot more accurately with a scope than with iron sights. On this point reasonable men may disagree. After all is said and done, you should do what makes you happy. There is no right or wrong.
 

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Something else to consider is the light gathering capabilities of glass, choose the right scope and you will be able to see your target in the shadows rather than guessing at it. It can make a difference especially in bright conditions when animals are bedded down under cedars or junipers. Same thing with lighted reticules helping when you have a dark target against a dark background. I have been using the 1-3 Weavers as they are small and bright.
 

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Point Doc said:
Swany,

Concerning game at 200 yrds; a white tail yes and a 200lb plus pig no?? Does this seem reasonable? I just want to know the "safe/successful limitation" of this caliper.

Thanks,
~PD
If you check out various ballistics tables, you will see that at the muzzle, a 44 magnum handgun with a 240 grain bullet produces velocity and energy levels inferior to those generated by a 30-30 and 170 grain bullet at 200 yards. If you stick a 44 magnum to a 200lb hog's ribs, neck, or head and pull the trigger will it kill it? Of course it will. A 30-30 then has plenty enough starch to kill a big hog at 200 if you hit it in a vital spot....which a scope will help you accomplish.

I would say that 200-220 yards is a decent limit for a 30-30 because if you set it up to hit about 3 inches high at 100 yards it is still flat enough at 200 to hit a game animal's vitals without holding off, but the bullets are deadly who knows how much farther.
 

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Different strokes for different folks..... Enjoy your 20/15 vision while you can. :)
 

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If your vision is that good and you are comfortable taking shots out to the 200 and shoot the 200 often i would not scope it but i would try to keep my shots at about 100 to 125 yds just my 2 cents. As of now all my lever guns wear scopes sense the vision i had ten years has seemed to disappear . ;D
 

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Point Doc, congrats on the 20/15 vision, I had that good vision, about 35 years back, now bi-focals and Marlins with scopes to do the game justice. Enjoy your good vision while ypu have it, keep it if you can. Take care, John.
 

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Don't let pride get in the way of common sense. A scope makes for a more effective, and likely more humane hunting rifle - lever, bolt, or single shot. My eyes are still 20/20 corrected in the doc's office - and there's plenty of recent hardware on my shelf to reassure me that I can still hit small targets at even very long range with iron sights of some sort. That being said, I haven't seen a vision test yet trying to see a sight post on an elk's mud-caked shoulder in low light timber.

I have a stable of 1893's that will never see optics on them, and in good light on paper I can still shoot 2" groups at 100 yds with just the barrel sights. Same for a couple of 336 CB's and 1894's. Have a sweet 1894SS in 44 mag with a Skinner peep & a Williams twilight aperature which is a fine crossover & dang handy to pack - quick too. The iron sighted ones get their use, but if field conditions such as longer range or low light dictate, a scoped outfit is the better hunting tool. Have at least one of each, and let conditions dictate which one sees the field that day.....

Best Regards,
Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #17
glockmeister said:
Point Doc, congrats on the 20/15 vision, I had that good vision, about 35 years back, now bi-focals and Marlins with scopes to do the game justice. Enjoy your good vision while ypu have it, keep it if you can. Take care, John.
glockmeister,

Thanks,

I am just shy of the 5.0 mark...and hopefully will be able to maintain good vision. But, I spend too much time on the computers and these are rough on the vision!


Matt,

Pride...please, I have been domesticated with 26 years of marriage too my one and only bride and two college grad kids. ;)

I may have had a spark or two of pride in my youth; but between family and life, I just don't see it, nor have time for it.

I am planning on installing a modded tang sight that will fit my 336 for shots past 100yrds.

Thanks,
John
 

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i have an older weaver K1.5 on my 1964 336. had to finally do it cause of my vision. i got the gun when i was 14 and used it for almost 40 years without glass. i don't hunt any more, but still like to know i can pull it out of the safe and use it if i have to. lee
 

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Compare the 0-200yrd ballistics of the 30-30Win to the .308Win. ;)

People should realize that poor eyesight in and of itself does not negate use of iron sights. Certain types of vision troubles absolutely do but simply having eyes that aren't as sharp as they used to be does not have to force a scope.

If a scope works for an individual for whatever their reasons, then great. Bu there is ABSOLUTELY nothing inhumane about using irons or more humane about using a scope. That is all dependent on the shooter. A man who will take a questionable shot with irons is just as likely to do so with a scope. And I don't know what using irons or a scope has to do with common sense. Common sense would be choosing the setup that is best for you and your conditions, practicing with them extensively (especially off-hand), and then having the discipline to hunt within your means.

Jumping deer in thick woods along basalt and quartz-strewn mountains doesn't always make a scope the best choice.
 
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