[JACKTW]

I'm surprised you think the 338ME kicks like 45-70. I never shot a 45-70 but shot my 444s with 300 gr. JHC at max charge it's harsh after a few rounds. I shot 30 rounds sighting my 338MX and being a hard kicker never entered my mind.

I've shot up to 60 rounds bench shooting my 338MX. It's subjective but to me the 338MX is only slightly more recoil than my 308MX.

Jack

 

[308/338]

I've shot up to 60 rounds bench shooting my 338MX. It's subjective but to me the 338MX is only slightly more recoil than my 308MX.

Jack

I think a 30-06 bolt action recoil kicks harder than a 338exp. A friend has a Savage Stevens rifle 30-06 that kicks like a mule. He called me up and asked me about the Hodgdon H-4895 reduced loads. I told him when the weather becomes better we'll do some range work with the H-4895 reduced loads. My friend and I both agree the deer wouldn't know the differce between a 30 cal. 150 gr. bullet going at 2500 fps. and one at 2850 fps.

In the Speer #12 manual has a 30-06 load said to duplicates the performance of the 30-30. [ 150 gr. bullet - cci 200 primer - H-4895 - 42..0gr. - 2427 fps. - 22" barrel. Speer #12. manual states excellent load for training new shooters.

Well we will see.

 

[JACKTW]

I think a 30-06 bolt action recoil kicks harder than a 338exp. A friend has a Savage Stevens rifle 30-06 that kicks like a mule. He called me up and asked me about the Hodgdon H-4895 reduced loads. I told him when the weather becomes better we'll do some range work with the H-4895 reduced loads. My friend and I both agree the deer wouldn't know the differce between a 30 cal. 150 gr. bullet going at 2500 fps. and one at 2850 fps.

In the Speer #12 manual has a 30-06 load said to duplicates the performance of the 30-30. [ 150 gr. bullet - cci 200 primer - H-4895 - 42..0gr. - 2427 fps. - 22" barrel. Speer #12. manual states excellent loadfor trainingnew shooters.

Well we will see.

Have to agree that the '06 recoil is a tad stronger than the 338MXLR. The latter rifle weight at 8lbs and factory 200gr at 2600fps is rated at 22lbs @ 14.0 velocity. The '06 rifle at 8.5lbs and 200gr at 2620fps is rated at 23.1lbs @ 13.2 velocity. This is only general reference as different manufacturers rifle weight and stock style all plays into received recoil. I've never been recoil shy but I'm not a fan of today's light weight rifles.

My custom 700 35 Whelen weighed right at 9lbs which came in handy with hot 225gr and 250gr loads. A 35 Whelen rifle weighing 8.0lbs shooting a 250gr at 2500fps is rated at 27.8lbs of recoil at 15.0 velocity. My 250gr loads chrono'd at 2560fps but the recoil with it's 9lbs wasn't bad. Sure knocked the hell out of Elk and Moose though. LOL

That said, the older I get the more I favor lighter recoil. This aging thing has me not wishing to endure undo punishment. I can take Elk with my 308MX loaded with my bonded 185gr bullet @ 2600fps is good out to 500yds if need be, yet I prefer 300yd max. I consider it's recoil mild and the bullet performance is stellar. It's ballistics equates well to the 338ME ballistics yet lighter recoil.

Jack

 

[Cowboy23*]

I'm surprised you think the 338ME kicks like 45-70. I never shot a 45-70 but shot my 444s with 300 gr. JHC at max charge it's harsh after a few rounds. I shot 30 rounds sighting my 338MX and being a hard kicker never entered my mind.

I was bench resting it and the factory 338 Hornady ammo felt like they were loaded on the hot side. I had my 1895CB 45-70- with me and fired that with a Winchester 300grn jacketed soft point commercial hunting load. 1895 is a straight stock and for some reason seems to kick more than the pistol grip style of stock.

 

[wilecoyote]

here in MO ( ported .444 ) I learned that straight stocks are more prone to fail when mounted on heavy lead sleds. if true, evidently with pistol grips part of the recoil energy is deflected upwards, while straight stocks transfer all the thrust in a straight line. in all my happy ignorance, I think it is a question of geometry about the lines of application of the force.

 

[308/338]

here in MO ( ported .444 ) I learned that straight stocks are more prone to fail when mounted on heavy lead sleds. if true, evidently with pistol grips part of the recoil energy is deflected upwards, while straight stocks transfer all the thrust in a straight line. in all my happy ignorance, I think it is a question of geometry about the lines of application of the force.

Very interesting

 

[Grampa Grump]

Hi there to all following this thread. Grampa Grump from Oz here. Have just bought a 308MXLR (2008), but have yet to take delivery due to firearms ownership requirements. STOP PRESS :- As I write, a text has just come in advising that my "Permit to Acquire" has been approved by SA Police Firearms Branch. Now I have to wait till the weekend to take delivery as my local dealer is out of town this week.
I've been following this thread for a while with great interest, in anticipation of this new (to me) rifle. Dies, projectiles and 100 brass were included in the deal and I intend to "roll my own" from the outset. I have measured the brass and it is
1.528" HS (Hornady HS Comparator) consistently over ten randomly selected cases. Length and rim diameter are equally consistent at 1.910" and .501" respectively. Obviously I don't know the HS dimension of the rifle as yet and the method of fire forming is where my questions lie. Adam from RPP in post #1 outlined his preferred method which is what I have used in the past, however here is another method I have used for undersized brass. To make 257 Roberts cases from 7 x 57 brass I simply necked down, checked neck thickness and fire formed. This worked OK but the case bodies were not concentric after firing due to loose chamber fit. A friend suggested sizing down the neck not quite to the shoulder leaving a "false" shoulder to headspace on. Cases were then sized so the the bolt closed with only the slightest drag on closing. After firing the cases ejected freely, were concentric and no adverse signs noticed. This allows fire forming at normal cartridge C.O.A.L. Would this method work with my 308 ME. I have experimented by expanding the necks of a couple of reject cases (off centre flash hole) using a 21/64'' drill bit for a mandrel on my drill press as a "proof of concept''
test. This works OK (tried a few 30/30 cases too) but the attrition on the brass is about 25%,mainly from necks folding in at the mouth. I'm thinking of using a .338 expander button in my loading press to solve this issue. I feel that the neck damage issue was caused by misalignment and inaccurate tapering of my "mandrel" with a bench grinder; n.b. remember "experiment" and "proof of concept". Drill bit was used blunt end first and not spinning when pushed into the necks!
Would this method be OK to use in the marlin having due regard for less camming action than the bolt on the .257 and would the size up then down cause more than tolerable stretch compared to fire forming without the rigmarole? Some load info for fire forming would be appreciated as well.
Sorry about the long winded ramble, regards,
Chris (aka "Grumps")
PS I have H4895, H4198, Varget, 8208XBR and Trail Boss powders and 125,150 and 160 grain projectiles available.
PPS For JACKTW and fellow "Gremlin" experimenters the cases are Hornady
lot.# 4150715. Hope the info is of help to you. (where are your bullets Jack?)

 

[oldschoolron60]

Are the problems more prevalent on 2007jm or remlins

 

[JACKTW]

The Gremlin exist in all years of the 308ME's. The degree of severity are random as well. Some are fairly easy to mitigate, some aren't.

Remington made a short run of 308MX with left over receivers produced at North Haven. The remaining receivers were kept for warranty replacement for 2009 mishap producing a percentage of rifles having the dreaded barrel droop. Remington eventually ran out of those receivers and never made anymore.

Jack

 

[JACKTW]

Gramp Grump, not sure this rogue government that stole our election is going to allow me to have my bullet biz. We'll see soon enough but I'm certainly not taking kindly to it.

Jack

 

[Quietman2]

There is one more potential gremlin. Affected my 338. I learned this from the head gunsmith at Marlin before they closed down the plants and shipped everything. This was part of a number of discussions we had after I had to send my 338 back twice to get it repaired. To put it simply, a number of earlier production rifles in 308 and 338 were shipped with locking bolts that hadn't been hardened properly and will start to deform after a number of rounds through the rifle. From what he told me this didn't happen after they caught the problem, but a number of rifles were shipped this way. This allows too much movement in the breech bolt. You can get a number of symptoms from this, some of which look like a headspace issue. A give away that this may be a potential problem is it gets harder to open the lever to extract a round after a certain point. But you may not notice it right away and it's already causing other problems. The lever opening problem appears quicker on the 338 and may take longer to catch in a 308. Combine this problem with an actual headspace issue and things are worse. So if you think you have a too loose headspace issue, check the locking bolt also.

 

[Cowboy23*]

There is one more potential gremlin. Affected my 338. I learned this from the head gunsmith at Marlin before they closed down the plants and shipped everything. This was part of a number of discussions we had after I had to send my 338 back twice to get it repaired. To put it simply, a number of earlier production rifles in 308 and 338 were shipped with locking bolts that hadn't been hardened properly and will start to deform after a number of rounds through the rifle. From what he told me this didn't happen after they caught the problem, but a number of rifles were shipped this way. This allows too much movement in the breech bolt. You can get a number of symptoms from this, some of which look like a headspace issue. A give away that this may be a potential problem is it gets harder to open the lever to extract a round after a certain point. But you may not notice it right away and it's already causing other problems. The lever opening problem appears quicker on the 338 and may take longer to catch in a 308. Combine this problem with an actual headspace issue and things are worse. So if you think you have a too loose headspace issue, check the locking bolt also.

Too bad we don't have any serial number ranges for problem rifles. I have JM 338 and one of those 308 rifles produced with the Remington serial number. No barrel droop but possibly could have soft locking bolt issue. Too bad all the tool and die makers I know retired. Those guys could reproduce anything as long as you had a sample for them and harden to any degree required. They even had the tool that tests RC hardness.

 

[Quietman2]

There is a quick and dirty way to measure head space with your ammo. In the situation with the 308ME this is necessary, because at least in some cases neither the chamber nor the ammo is at SAAMI spec, so a head space gauge won’t help. You can use masking tape as a cheap feeler gauge. Cover the case head with masking (painter’s) tape, trim the excess tape, and check the fit in your chamber.

[/QUOTE]
One question for clarification
Masking tape and painter's tape are 2 different products. Regular Masking tape is tan, painter's tape, a less sticky version of masking tape, is blue and has a different thickness from the tan tape. Which one do you use?

Thanks

BTW, regarding different thicknesses, it's very dependent on who makes the tape. So I understand why you say to measure it. I have a roll from the Dollar Store that has a much thinner tape layer than the roll I got from Home Depot.

 

[Quietman2]

No barrel droop but possibly could have soft locking bolt issue. Too bad all the tool and die makers I know retired. Those guys could reproduce anything as long as you had a sample for them and harden to any degree required. They even had the tool that tests RC hardness.

You can order the locking lugs from several places. At midwest gun they have a Model 336 locking bolt. It's the same part # regardless of the caliber (When you filter by caliber, including 338 and 308, it gives the same part #).
I wonder if the different thicknesses are just manufacturing variances between batches?

There is another cause for sticky extraction on the 338 (only extraction of a round after firing, not chambering a new or full resized round). Never saw this listed as a 308 problem.
You may have seen the posts on fixing this issue. Some 338's came out with very obvious machining marks in the chamber. The 'ridges" are tall enough to grab the brass when it expands. People were blaming this on Hornady making the loads too hot at first until someone tracked down this issue.

There's a thread from a long time ago on how to deal with this and lessen the machining marks (don't remember the poster). Can't find it right now. It's at least 8 years old though. Usually, polishing a chamber is not recommended as it increases load on the bolt face (and the locking lug in a Marlin). However, this warning is regarding a chamber that is smooth enough the cartridge chambers and ejects with no problems. In this case you are fixing a problem and trying to allow the casing to move normally. You just have to do a little at a time so as not to over do it.