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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It looks to me if the .356Win and the .358Win are the same animal with the levereveloution powder and 35 ftx bullets. They both shoot a 2500fps with the 200gr bullet and the same with the 220gr Speer bullet around 2300fps. I have measured every millmeter or inch of both cases and except for the rim they are the same. With the lower pressure Hodgon Lvr Powder I have to decide which one to keep. If Hornady would make a 250gr ftx bullet in the .35 caliber I know which one I would keep.
You can load the 180gr in both and have an excellent deer round and 200 and 220gr in both and have something for much bigger game.
Which one should I keep, I like the .356 because it is heavier but the .358 because it will shoot a 250gr bullet that has a higher BC for longer distances.

"fk"
 

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I own both and am perfectly happy to continue to keep both. I also can see the distinct similarities, but also see some subtle differences to my mind as well. I do shoot both 200 and 250gr in both my .358s, with my 250s being Speer grand Slams, an excellent bullet. I lucked into 6 boxes of brand new .356 ammo about 18 months ago, with two boxes being 250gr. So, although I have not fired the Win 250gr PPs in my Marlin, I can. I'm very happy to keep both and using the traditional FN 180, 200, 220 and 250gr in the ER and pointed bullets including Barnes TSX in my BLR/358. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with the 200gr FTX bullets in either one, but I simply have no need at this time for them in either. See, the same, only different! ;) Keep 'em both! ;D
 

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The cases for the 356 & 358 ARE the same except for the rim. In fact, you use 358 dies for the 356 with a 30-30 shell holder. ;) The bullets need to be seated deeper in the 356 to cycle in a Marlin or Winchester & be flat points of course, 200ftx is the exception. Most 358 loads are alittle faster with the same bullets.

Do you need money or something? Why sell either of them. Your 358 must be a light wt. if it is lighter than your 356. What is your 358 chambered in?

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My .358 is a Browning BLR, and the .356 is a Winchester 94 BB AE and with scope weighs around 8.5# I really haven't weighed the BLR with a scope so I will weigh it in the morning.

Hornady rates the FTX bullet at 1800-2600fps and says in some of their advertising it is a tough bullet. I have never hunted with it as yet so I don't know, I'm sure there are some hunters on this website who have and could give us the real skinny on it.

"fk"
 

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I shoot a lot of 250's in my 356Win BB94 Winchester. Some are the Wincester factory loads, some are Hornady RN's, and a lot are flat point cast bullets. IF I owned a BLR/358W first, I wouldn't have bought the Winchester in 356W. I do not have a need for the pointed bullets, as the RN's and flat points are flat enough in performance over my required ranges to work effectively. Elk at 150 yards or less are quite common for me, so pointy premiums are unnecessary. JMHO They are ballistic twins. The differences are minute enough to be simple paper differences and serve no difference on game. Again, JMHO.

Can't loose with either. Pick the rifle you prefer and enjoy the cartridge it comes with.

Jeff
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Sweetwater said:
I shoot a lot of 250's in my 356Win BB94 Winchester. Some are the Wincester factory loads, some are Hornady RN's, and a lot are flat point cast bullets. IF I owned a BLR/358W first, I wouldn't have bought the Winchester in 356W. I do not have a need for the pointed bullets, as the RN's and flat points are flat enough in performance over my required ranges to work effectively. Elk at 150 yards or less are quite common for me, so pointy premiums are unnecessary. JMHO They are ballistic twins. The differences are minute enough to be simple paper differences and serve no difference on game. Again, JMHO.

Can't loose with either. Pick the rifle you prefer and enjoy the cartridge it comes with.

Jeff
NRA Life
I agree with Jeff......................They're Billistic Twins in the real world............the only differences are on paper and the the style of bullet used...........I think its a closer match than a 30-60 on a 308.

Tom
 

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I have a BLR in .358 and a new to me Marlin 336er in .356 ;D. I agree they are ballistic equal's also. I have to think the BLR would be more versatile because you have no bullet restriction's. You are all set though keep both!
Karl
 

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I also own a 94AE BB 356W + BLR 358W And never thought about selling either one. Was far as you measuring the cases and the only thing different you observe is the rims of the cases. There is more that just the rims the 356W case is thicker than the 358W and powder charge of the 356W should be kept within it's suggested level. I don't agree that the two cartridge can safely discharge the same bullet at the same velocity too. I do agree the two cartridges can do the same on game/paper though.

T ::) NY
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The best load I can find for my .356 and 200gr FTX is 40.1 grs of h4198 2484fps. Hornadys new book for the .358 200gr ftx is 2500fps with 40.6 grs of H4198 thats for the .358 Winchester how close can you get. Case volume is 57grs for both cartridges. 57-40 leaves 17grs or thereabouts. The H4198 is the powder for both guns.

"fk"
 

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[quote="fk" ]
The best load I can find for my .356 and 200gr FTX is 40.1 grs of h4198 2484fps. Hornadys new book for the .358 200gr ftx is 2500fps with 40.6 grs of H4198 thats for the .358 Winchester how close can you get. Case volume is 57grs for both cartridges. 57-40 leaves 17grs or thereabouts. The H4198 is the powder for both guns.

"fk"
[/quote]

Agree! I've used a bunch of H4198 and 40gr seems to be the magic number. Some of my 200's are remington coreloks and they hover around the 2500fps mark in my 356W. Most of the "book" differences in velocity stem from different barrel lengths used in the load development. Most of my data lists the same charges for both the 356W and the 358W with the same bullets; now don't have a heart attack, but a lot of the data lists the same cartridge length for both cartridges. Yes, I know the 358W can be loaded longer - but the facts remain the facts - the data doesn't always reflect that extra available length. They are to be enjoyed and need not be picked apart.

Jeff
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I went to the range last Wednesday. I reloaded 356W using the instruction in the Hornady #8 manual to the letter. My load was Win. cases, WLR primers, 43.0gr. of H4895, 200gr.FTX bullets. All were at suggested C.O.A.L. I hand feed the rounds into the chamber fired them and they were accurate. I put one into the tube mag. of the Win. 94AE and cycled the rifle. They was a little long in my 94AE 356W and wouldn't cycle. I made 50 rounds at this length and I was at the range so I used them up. My next 356W loads I will make up a few dummy rounds to see how short to make the C.O.A.L. so they will work through the action.

Here is 3 shots after sighting in.

T 8) NY
 

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My 356 is a Marlin and I shoot 220 gr flat points.

My 358 is a Savage 99F and I shoot 250 gr in it.

Both rounds tend to smack with authority. If possible, I would keep both. The 358 has an edge at longer ranges.
 

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Hey RD, send an action to Dangerous Dan and have one made for ya. He rebarreled one of mine to a 22-250 and I just sent another one to him to rechamber to the 7mm08AI and bed in a Boyds stock. DP
 

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dpe.ahoy said:
Hey RD, send an action to Dangerous Dan and have one made for ya. He rebarreled one of mine to a 22-250 and I just sent another one to him to rechamber to the 7mm08AI and bed in a Boyds stock. DP
Why a 7mm-08 AI just buy a 280 Rem.?? ???
 

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Already have three 280's and five 7mm08's in the house. This is different, main reason. Ok, only reason. ::) DP
 

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dpe.ahoy said:
Already have three 280's and five 7mm08's in the house. This is different, main reason. Ok, only reason. ::) DP
Hey that's a great reason I wish I thought of that reason. I have a Rem. 700 silhouette 7mm/08 it has a 24" bull barrel. I have seen one go for $1,300.00 on GB but in 308W. So this rifle will stay as is. But I do like your reasoning.

:T :eek: NY ??? ???
 

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308/338 said:
Why a 7mm-08 AI just buy a 280 Rem.?? ???
Could be that the 280 requires a longer action than the 7-08.
 

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In a bolt action, or a BLR (basically a bolt action with a lever) the .358win can be loaded to higher pressures. The original loads for the .358win were held to lower pressures than say a .243 or .308win. In the .358win Ramshots TAC is the powder, John Barsness a writer for Rifle and Hanloader magazine wrote an article a couple of years ago about the .338 Federal and .358win. Using a Ruger Hawkeye with a 22" barrel 52grs of Tac(Max load!!!!) a 200gr Hornady S.P. with a magnum primer he recorded 2,750fps with no pressure signs. He used the Magnum primer because it raises pressures in cases with limited powder capacity and spherical double based powders are a little harder to ignite. Ramshot recomends magnum primers in the .338 Federal with their spherical powders.

This is where the .358win is really at as far as its true potential, around 60-62 thousand psi, and those speeds are truly impressive. I ran that same load, except with a Rem core-lokt S.P. and it was a little hot in my BLR(little bit sticky extraction) but i did substitue the bullet.

Many people believe that the only benefit from a spire point bullet is flatter trajectory but it also will have a delayed expansion as compared to a round nose so there are other benefits.

In essence the 356 and 358 win are two peas in a pod, unless you are using a stronger rifle, then the .358win goes from a great cartridge to one of truly amazing qualitites. Is this enough to really notice in the field? I strongly doubt it, unless you are shooting big animals at kind of far distances (200-300yds) but there are other cartridges that would fit that bill a litltle better
 

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Oh yeah, if you want a great 7mm cartridge for a short action try a 7mm SAUM in a Rem model seven. Its a 280AI in a short action, mine is synthetic/stainless and cost a lot less than a custom. I reload so ammo is not an issue brass is easy to get and even Lapua makes brass for the 300 SAUM so one can get great brass....
 
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