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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First you need to know something about what you are about to put inside your gun and fire. Everybody will tell you no two guns will shoot alike, but this is not entirely true. Good ammo usally shoots good, in good firearms, including Marlins.

Bulk Ammo: The Wall mart special is fun to shoot but not that precise and it can come from serious brand names like Winchester,Federal and Remington. here you will get a lot of "Flyers" due to the fact they are not sorted well at the factory. As a lot of ammo reaches certain stages of developement there are discrepencies that affect accuracy in some rounds.

Better Stuff: CCI Blazer and PMC Zapper really works good, and is suprisingly accurate in most good .22s This gives rise to a good hunting round.

The best: Right now looks like Wolf has some damn good target rounds, and those that know about Wolf ammo, know about everything else.

Learn how to shoot from a bench rest properly: That means a two point contact rest, not across the hood of a pickup.

Use a good target: there are many small sequencial targets that can be used, The BDT centers are good for ammo tests.

Now go out and buy 50 rounds of everything you can find and go to the range. Set up and seriously take notes of every 5 round group and log your results at both 25 and 50 yards.

The only real difference in yardage will be wind. As far as light squirrel rifles shooting at 50 yards is useless. To prove that point I never fired a 50 yards match with my CZ-452 untill recently. Mike Brown decided to have a 50 yard bench match with all the usal sharpshooters. Myself and jr top gun shooter Kade jones won our divisions with the same rifle. The scores just wernt as high. all else was the same.

Shoot 5 five shot groups and record them,to find out your best idea of ammo for your special useages. Thats really all there is to it...Practice to be perfect. Then post it here for discussion. Pass it on.
 

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Weather been so lousy here.. I haven't had chance to do much shooting , but I am going to site in CZ 452 and NEF 17M2 for 50 yds for squack killing machines..
 

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Gunjunkie said:
Weather been so lousy here.. I haven't had chance to do much shooting , but I am going to site in CZ 452 and NEF 17M2 for 50 yds for squack killing machines..
You have an M-2? Pix if you can please! I'd like to hear more about it!

50 yd sight in for GBT's with a .22? or is the CZ another 17?

Ain't I a one wif the questions today :p

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 

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UNCLE JOHN'S OUTDOORS said:
First you need to know something about what you are about to put inside your gun and fire. Everybody will tell you no two guns will shoot alike, but this is not entirely true. Good ammo usally shoots good, in good firearms, including Marlins.

Bulk Ammo: The Wall mart special is fun to shoot but not that precise and it can come from serious brand names like Winchester,Federal and Remington. here you will get a lot of "Flyers" due to the fact they are not sorted well at the factory. As a lot of ammo reaches certain stages of developement there are discrepencies that affect accuracy in some rounds.

Better Stuff: CCI Blazer and PMC Zapper really works good, and is suprisingly accurate in most good .22s This gives rise to a good hunting round.

The best: Right now looks like Wolf has some damn good target rounds, and those that know about Wolf ammo, know about everything else.

Learn how to shoot from a bench rest properly: That means a two point contact rest, not across the hood of a pickup.

Use a good target: there are many small sequencial targets that can be used, The BDT centers are good for ammo tests.

Now go out and buy 50 rounds of everything you can find and go to the range. Set up and seriously take notes of every 5 round group and log your results at both 25 and 50 yards.

The only real difference in yardage will be wind. As far as light squirrel rifles shooting at 50 yards is useless. To prove that point I never fired a 50 yards match with my CZ-452 untill recently. Mike Brown decided to have a 50 yard bench match with all the usal sharpshooters. Myself and jr top gun shooter Kade jones won our divisions with the same rifle. The scores just wernt as high. all else was the same.

Shoot 5 five shot groups and record them,to find out your best idea of ammo for your special useages. Thats really all there is to it...Practice to be perfect. Then post it here for discussion. Pass it on.


10 pounds of BS in a 5 pound bag. No offence but those ammo choices are BS, and......well.....the holier than thou is BS too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So tell me "Old Fart" if you were testing ammo where would you tell the public to start testing loads. Thats what this place is all about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have been waiting on the M2 and now that it is here havent gotten one yet. Sorry. I just wonder if a bullet at 2100 fps is going to be hard on small meat animals, the 17 MRM sure was, but I dont know about the M2.
Guess ill have to go get one.
 

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Any "seasoning shots" when changing ammo? If so, how many? Or is that not necessary?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I find most shooters do fire seasoning shots, after cleaning. It gets very interesting depending on who you talk to. The idea is to build up the "Merril" ring in the chamber for a tighter cartrige fit, as well as heat up the barrel. There is a multitude of other things you can do or ignore, but when you find out what makes you better,stick with it.
 

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I had heard "seasoning" needed to be done when changing ammo also.

The only time I did such testing this was my procedure. I had six loads and two rifles. First 10 shots were taken with any particular load to "season" and then 4, 5-shot groups were fired. If sights (scope) needed adjustment it was done and notes taken over those first 10 shots. When all six loads had been shot, I then shot them again reversing the order in order to make up for fouling and/or fatigue. E.I. shot A, B, C, D, E, E, D, C, B, A. The second time any load was shot it did not get the 10 "seasoning" shots. 50 rounds were fired from each rifle with each load. No significant differences were found between the first 4, 5-shot gorups and the second 4, 5-shot groups of any particular load.

Results:
Mossberg 377 Clark custom 10/22
Smallest avg. Blazer 1.48" S&B .62"
S&B 1.54" RWS .63"
RWS 1.69"
Fed. Target 1.74" Fed. Lightning .75"
CCI Velocitor 2.06 Blazer .84"
Fed. Lightning 2.11" Fed Target .91"
CCI 1.27"

Best group: S&B .70" RWS .46"
Worst group: CCI 2.97" CCI 1.92"

Most consistent: Difference between largest and smallest groups within ammo group.
RWS .65" RWS .34"
Fed. Target 1.21" S&B .43"
Blazer 1.51" Fed Lightning .58"

Best deal: Sellier & Bellot 50 @ $1.80
Most Expensive: RWS [email protected] $6.50

And Yes, the Clark shoots better than the Mossberg. Everybody was out of my "standard" Winchester T-22, so it wasn't in my test. But it has always shot well before.
 

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Sorry the columns didn't come out the way they should have. :oops: But I think anybody interested can figure it out. The smaller groups are with the Clark and the bigger with the Mossberg.

Both rifles had similar size and power scopes, 4-16X-50mm, although the Clark had a Bushnell Elite 4200 and the Mossberg a Tasco World Class Plus. Both brand new. The Bushnell was about $400.00 and the Tasco about $150.00. The differences in clarity and sharpness were noticiable, in favor of the Bushnell, as expected from the difference in price. :wink: It was more fatiguing for my eyes to shoot with the Tasco. :cry: However, at 50 meters, and in bright sunlight, I don't think the difference in scopes played a part in the results of the test. 8)
 

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I will second John's experience regarding PMC Zapper ammunition.
The lot I have is about 10 years old and it has grouped very well in my .22's.

w30wcf
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Many people ask me how ammo stacks up to each other in may tests. Personally I think a lot of guns shoot alike with the same ammo. We have about 8 to 10 CZ-452 rifles on Team Top Gun with Bushnell 6x18X50 scopes, they shoot so near the same with CCI Balazer we all can use the same click book all the way out to 100 yards. But you better test it in your gun, something like PMCZapper may be better.

The Clark barrels have it all over stock Ruger barrels in the 10/22. The only thing that will outshoot a Clark is an "Infamous" rifle by Skinner and I understand there are only 9 in the world. They can shoot .001 at 25 yards and .300 at 50 yards consistantly if you can shoot.
 

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John,
I agree with your original post.

I am no expert but have tried to get on the ammo testing band wagon and after testing over 25 varieties of 22LR ammo, have made a few observations:

It all shoots:
I usually keep and use the cheap stuff to zero and let the kids shoot. The kids and I have shot some impressive groups with some inexpensive ammo. When I get serious though, I go to the good stuff.

I have divided it up into about 4 catagories of what it costs and what I use it for:
Cheap - zeroing, open sights, and kids
Mid-Range - hunting and my plinking
Expensive - serious shooting, trying to push a rifle, and BDT's
Specialty - SSS, Stingers, Velocitors, QuikShoks, SGB, etc..

Sometimes I get set in my mind that I want to shoot a particular ammo out of a particular rifle for no apparent reason other than "I want to". I have yet to find it won't work.

Most of my shooting takes place at 25yds and I realize that this may be why I don't see big differences. I suspect that as I progress in my shooting and as my kids get older, we will move to longer distances and will begin to see bigger differences.

Off topic but, bigger factors for me to shoot tighter groups have been glass, triggers, and my ability to concentrate on a given day.

Wannabe
 
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