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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Was looking at some Hornady Superformance 165 GMX @ 2940fps,sure looked nice, but has anyone actually shot these over a chrono w/a 24" bbl 30.06? I am tempted to get a few boxes, just to check them out. I can 2800 easily with handloads in the Barnes 168 TTSX, but 2940 ( hence the Light Magnum effect) just might make a difference in a 300 yds shot, or maybe not? Any help?
 

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I haven't bought much factory centerfire ammo in a long time... At least, not for the .30-06.

My load for 165 gr bullets is 56.0 grains of H414 with a Federal Lg Rifle Magnum primer is producing 2,925 fps as chrono'd from my CZ-550. It sure does shoot accurately in that rifle, and is pretty much a go to load for me.
 

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El Kabong
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I never would buy store bought ammo. The stuff I make is way better.
What powder are you using?

I can push a 178gr A-Max 2930 all day long with H-4350. I backed it down to 2880 where I get 1/4 inch groups at 200 yards.
I do 8 inch head, 4 inch ear, and 2 inch foot hits at 550 yards all day long.
Never shot 168s but I bet I can push them over 3000fps, like the 110, 135s & 150s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well, now we're getting somewhere! I use 58gr H4350 behind the 168 TTSX in Norma brass out of my Remington CDL 700. I would certainly be interested in any load that can push a 165 @ or a little over 2900, and this rifle does have a 24" barrel. Isn't H414 pretty close to burn rate as WW760. if not the same thing? I have a bunch of it, but no H414. I use a case full of R22 with the Nosler 200 Partition.
I don't care to buy factory ammo either, unless its for a smaller caliber. I wonder if the Hornady GMX is a little harder metal than the Barnes TTSX, if so, it could be pushed a bit faster.
 

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Everyone on this site must have faster barrels on their guns, because I use 58 gr of H-4350 and get 2750 fps. I actually took it to 60 gr as I found in one manual and still didn't get to 2800, and the accuracy deteriorated. My hunting load is 57.5 gr of H4350 for a measured velocity of 2725 fps.

I scratch my head when I read some of these numbers.
 

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How much influence does the elevation changes have on velocities? My loads were tested at 3,800 ft AMSL.
 

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I wanna say that muzzle velocity would be unaffected at 3800 ft. Down range velocity could be a little higher than at sea level I suppose.
 

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El Kabong
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The barrel I use is a Shilen stainless 26 inch varmint barrel with 1/10 twist.
Its been short throated, and blue printed to the Model 700 receiver.
I use 54.5 grains of H4350 and a A-Max 178 grain boat tail.
 

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Superformance ammo is actually loaded down. Once upon a time, Hornady had a Light/Heavy Magnum line which was loaded hotter. Because it was loaded up, it was not rated to be used in semi-auto rifles - which are becoming more popular today. Hornady dropped the line, loaded the ammo down so it can be used in both types of rifles and capped it with it's new bullets labeling it Superformance. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I get around 2800 fps with my H4350/58gr out of my 24" CDL. I bought some H414 today, along with a box of the Hornady 165 GMX. I am a die hard loyal Barnes fan, but have to give these a whirl, I think I will try and work up to 59-60 gr, depends on the rifle/chrono.
I have had one "fast" 22" barreled '06, gave very high speeds for what was routine in other rifles. I like to work up to full potential of the case/bullet combo, usually until either accuracy goes south or chrono shows diminishing returns. I would rather have accuracy over speed, especially with a good bullet design, it just isn't needed for my uses. My 200 Partition reaches 2650, the 240 Woodleigh gets an honest 2400+. I didn't clock the Nosler 125's but it is humming, and scary accurate. BTW, that NBT 125 is a heck of a deer bullet, really puts the stink on 'em, and almost turns a coyote inside out! It will open up a big rockchuck like a $4 cheap suitcase, "wide open"! ha.
 

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I get my 165gr. Core lokts going over 2900 with my H4350, so it wouldn't interest me too much. My brother got the Superformance in 223, and said the velocity claims nearly made it into a 22-250. His chrony said the same. ??? :eek:. Sounds like good stuff to me. I always kind of felt it was easy to beat 30-06 factory ammo.
 

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redlegagent said:
Superformance ammo is actually loaded down. Once upon a time, Hornady had a Light/Heavy Magnum line which was loaded hotter. Because it was loaded up, it was not rated to be used in semi-auto rifles - which are becoming more popular today. Hornady dropped the line, loaded the ammo down so it can be used in both types of rifles and capped it with it's new bullets labeling it Superformance. ;)
Superformance ammo is loaded with slightly less powder but it is an entirely new powder. The old LM/HM line of ammo used conventional powders that were compacted by 10 -15%. The new superformance is claimed to achieve the same or greater velocity as the older stuff with lower pressures than LM/HM.
 

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Halwg said:
Everyone on this site must have faster barrels on their guns, because I use 58 gr of H-4350 and get 2750 fps. I actually took it to 60 gr as I found in one manual and still didn't get to 2800, and the accuracy deteriorated. My hunting load is 57.5 gr of H4350 for a measured velocity of 2725 fps.

I scratch my head when I read some of these numbers.
mmmmmm hhmmmmm i get lower numbers than most claims also.
 

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Pard did a good job of explaining why his rifle produces higher velocity than some well worn factory rifle with a generous chamber, like mine! ;D There's a lot of variation from rifle to rifle. Chamber dimensions, throat depth, even actual bore diameter, and of course barrel length all play a role in velocity. I've heard that twist rate can also affect velocity, but haven't seen enough evidence of that myself to say one way or the other.

I kind of like the idea of the new high-velocity "Superformance" ammo - if it actually delivers both accuracy and good velocity. Velocity can be a good thing, especially if nothing else is lost along the way to higher numbers. In reality though, a 300 yard shot is well within the capabilities of standard 165 or 180 grain .30-06 ammo. My poor ol' beat up, shot out M1917 with the old military barrel chopped to 21" has no problem at 300 yards, shooting 165 gr Noslers at 2750 fps. No problem at all.

BTW - far as I know, altitude doesn't affect muzzle velocity but the "thin" air at higher altitudes offers less resistance and drag on the bullet, so trajectories tend to be flatter as the bullet retains velocity better downrange. I've had to make sight and scope adjustments when firing at long ranges at near sea level vs up in the mountains. Typically not real noticeable at shorter ranges, or with minor shifts in elevation.

Regards, Guy
 

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Tried some of the 150's in a 308 NM M1A and they shot all over the paper. I normally wouldn't shoot these in a M1A but it was all we had at the time. This particular rifle was extremely accurate so we fired about 6 rounds of the SuperPerformance and went to town and bought a box of 150 grain corelocks and they knocked the bulleye out. It was my boys rifle and we were getting ready to go out of state deer hunting and were in a rush and he brought the Hornadys thinking they would shoot good but he was wrong. They may do good in a bolt action or another M1A .

Regards
Horseshoe
 

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I use the 150 grain superformance and get 3040 fps out of my 22" ruger. Box says 3080 with 24" barrel. I've shot one deer @ 200 yards droped dead right in his tracks. Shot one pig @ 150 yards. All three shots passed threw. Everything I shot with new superformance has had pass threw shots, but when I used federal barnes ammo I never got a pass threw even at like 50 yards. For factory ammo its good stuff. Hey preacher H414 and W760 is the same thing. Several hodgen powders are the same as Winchester powders.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Was your 150's the SST or the GMX,etc? I had a bunch of 760, heck, this H414 ain't gonna hurt me, ha.
 

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preacher said:
Was your 150's the SST or the GMX,etc? I had a bunch of 760, heck, this H414 ain't gonna hurt me, ha.
Ya it was the gmx. Have to use copper out here in Ca. I use 60 grains of W760 behind a barnes TTSX 150 grain bullet for average velocity of 3025 +/- a few fps. It's a 1/2 moa load in my rifle. My reload is as good if not better then the factory load. I mite switch over to the gmx bullet if I dont have good results with this TTSX bullet on my next harvest.
 

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M700 said:
Pard did a good job of explaining why his rifle produces higher velocity than some well worn factory rifle with a generous chamber, like mine! ;D There's a lot of variation from rifle to rifle. Chamber dimensions, throat depth, even actual bore diameter, and of course barrel length all play a role in velocity.

I have rifles in the safe with same barrel length and caliber and they vary in velocity with indentical loads. Some by
as much as 75fps. Hardly anything is chiseled in stone when it comes to ballistics from one rifle to another as you alluded to. Just because a handload produces a particular velocity in one rifle and not the other does not mean it is
incorrect data. Lot to lot variation in canister powders can result in near 100fps velocity loss or gain. I know that because I test (and work up loads again) whenever I start a new lot #. Part of the reason I buy powder in bulk. It'll be the same velocity from shot #1 to shot #1000, with exception of temperature variations. Heck, the internal
volume of rifle cases can change velocities by 100fps. Don't believe me? Try it in cases varying in weight by 30gr!!
Different brands of brass can vary that much! I know because I segregate cases by weight and work up loads accordingly.

358 Win
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks guys, I have some 165 GMX, but I think I might play around with that 140 FTGMX for this 30-30 Ackley Improved! The 150GMX I'll have to try in this '06. I shot the 139SST Light Mags out of a Kimber 7mm08 one year, killed an exotic sheep at 200+ yards, but it was still a pretty soft bullet; seemed to me anyhow. I am an old die hard barnesX & Failsafe fan, so any kind of solid copper/etc turns me on.
 
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