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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
if my reloading data info calls for one brand of powder that i don't have. how would someone work-up

a comparable charge with a different brand of powder, bearing in mind that everything else would remain the same.

i thought i had it figured, but not too sure.

i'm also wondering why my lee loading manual indicates such a huge difference in powder charges for 45-70 405gr imr 4198(30gr)

to the hodgdon charts imr 4198(47grs) with everything else the same without blowing someone to bits. i just get the

feeling i'm overlooking something very simple.
 

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Reloading powders are recommended by the manufacturers for specific cartridges and uses. They have the equipment, knowledge and experience to develop safe, well-balanced loads. Different powders have very different characteristics, such as burn rate, density, etc., and must be matched quite closely to the cartridge, bullet and intended use. One cannot simply randomly choose a powder for a randomly-chosen cartridge and work up a safe load. Stick to the manufacturers' recommendations unless you know precisely what you are doing and understand all the risks.

There are 3 different levels of reloads for the .45-70, based on three generations of firearms. The weakest firearms that were chambered for the .45-70 were the Trapdoor Springfield rifles of the late 1800's. Marlin 1895 lever action guns can take more pressure, more powder and perform to higher levels. At the top is the Ruger #1 and assorted bolt-action rifles, which can safely handle even more pressure. Most reloading manuals treat each of these separately - are you sure you aren't looking at the Trapdoor section in the Lee manual and the Marlin section if the Hodgdon charts?
 

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I don't have a lee manual, but every manual I do have lists three separate sets of loads for 45_70 #1 trapdoor loads, #2 modern lever action loads, #3 Ruger #1 and bolt action loads. All for the same bullet weights. If you are reading Lee's trapdoor load and Hogdons Ruger loads, that might be where you are seeing such a difference.
 

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What brands of powder do you have and I could give you a starting point with one or more maybe.
 

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If you stayed with the trapdoor loads on the Hodgdon website it says 30-32 grains for the 405s. The modern rifle loads start at the 47 grains but thats for a 400 grain jacketed bullet.

Stay with the trapdoor loads to begin with, especially if using cast bullets.

I don't think it would be a wise to just swap powders, even knowing the burn rates. Powders are made different for different applications. I don't know enough about them to expound on their properties but I would go by tried and true loads, varying within MIN/MAX until I had proper understanding.

Wish I knew more myself but just when I think I've got........
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
well, if i'm understanding these replies, if i'm loading 405gr bullet with 30gr of imr4198 as my lee manual says, and i want to start loading some 450gr bullets, and

lee calls for a charge of 24.3gr of accur 5744 powder. sounds almost like i'm gonna need a number of different powders to accommodate different bullet grains.

i.m still a little nervous about the disparate with lee's call for 30gr of imr4198 an the hodgden reloading website calls for 48grs of imr4198. didn't see anything about

a trapdoor springfield.







hodgden web site suggest and i start loading 450gr bullets that lee calls for
 

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i.m still a little nervous about the disparate with lee's call for 30gr of imr4198 an the hodgden reloading website calls for 48grs of imr4198. didn't see anything about

a trapdoor springfield.
Go back to Hodgdon's website. Look up .45/70. It will show you Trapdoor, Lever Action and Modern levels.

The .45/70 cartridge can be loaded to a WIDE variety of power levels. The top levels are dangerous to use in an old "trapdoor" Springfield. However those "trapdoor" loads are very pleasant and safe to use in our Marlin lever action rifles.

"Modern" rifle loads are intended for the Very Strong Ruger Number One falling block rifles and converted Mauser bolt actions.

Perhaps buying a loading manual or two, with sections on the .45/70 would be a good idea, instead of just relying on the on-line data. At least to start. I've been loading 50 years, since I was a kid, and I still rely on both printed manuals and now, on-line data. Go slow, read and heed.

Regards, Guy
 

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The Hodgdon online reloading data clearly states three different .45-70 "cartridges" - Trapdoor Rifles, Lever Actions, and Modern Rifles. For 400-405 gr bullets, they list 30.0-32.0 gr of IMR 4189 for Trapdoor Rifles, 43.0-46.0 gr for Lever Actions, and 47.0-50.0 gr for Modern Rifles. You have to know what rifle you are reloading for to reload .45-70 cartridges safely. You can shoot lower power loads in stronger guns, but shooting higher powered ammo in weaker guns will be a disaster.

It may very well be that you need a different powder to load 450 gr bullets in the .45-70, than you would use for 400-405 gr bullets. Hodgdon doesn't list data for 450 gr bullets, only for 485 gr bullets, and only then in the Trapdoor Rifles section.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
silly me. i don't know why i had just assumed that i was loading for my lever action. sounds like a pretty wide range

from trapdoor to modern loads that could be done. I have a lee reloading manual that iv'e had my face in for almost two months.

for all of the signs of precision, maybe seems to overstate
 

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Hey Tomizzle

You had better get educated fast or you will blow yourself up. I have every loading manual except Lee's and they all clearly show a different load for a Trapdoor at a maximum pressure of 28,000 psi, a lever gun at 40,000 psi, and a Ruger/Bolt gun at 65,000 psi. Consider what a pressure of 65,000 psi would do to your lever gun, you will probably only get to shoot one time.....and if you survive you will not want to do that again.

Make certain that you have the right Reloading Manual data for the right cartridge/rifle combo and follow it to the letter. My only accident in 60 years of reloading was caused by substituting reloading components. Learn from my mistake.
 

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yes you must pay attention to the various levels of 45-70. As stated earlier, start with trap door loads and work your way to the modern rifle loads. I made a mistake and loaded 50 rounds with the ruger #1 loads for my 1895. I did not realize until I was done and reviewing my notes and comparing to the right tabloes......then I quickly bought a bullet puller and pulled all 50 rounds, not fun so please pay attention to the tables. I actually put a big red mark on the page for the ruger #1 loads so I will not make the mistake again....;
i just found the trapdoor charges on the hodgden reloading sit. i didn't realiize that was their. i didn't realize thar lee's callout was for

trapdoor.
 

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OP what make of rifle are you reloading for? In class we were able to see the consequences of improper reloading so PLEASE educate yourself before reloading( I personally read books and watched a lot of youtube but the one one one class gave me a better understanding of the firearm cartridge and dangers of)!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
well, what to say. i went got myself a new 45-70gbl lever action, got some 45-70 cartridges. cast some 405 and 460gr bullets and got myself some 1mr 4198 that was recommended by a friend. been reading lee 2nd edition until my eyeballs bleed. trying to acquire as many reference points as possible to reach some consensus. i have plenty of time to get it right so their is no need to get educated fast so that i don't blow myself up.
it wasn't screaming obvious that i was looking at trapdoor loads while looking at u.s. gov. i would prefer to not assume that 45-70 u.s. gov was referencing a load for trapdoor. i doubt that i will put anything into motion until my conclusions are solid and coincide with any consensus. so far it's been very enlightening and interesting journey with still a long way to to go.
 

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.

It is a journey so never give up. It's a fun trip and for me it has not ended even after over 60 years, it's a continual learning experience.

Enjoy it, but be safe.
 

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I have over 12GB of digital reloading manuals but unfortunately they are around 300+Mb each so no emailing them... Along with the 6 manuals I have in book form.


Doc
 

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well, what to say. i went got myself a new 45-70gbl lever action, got some 45-70 cartridges. cast some 405 and 460gr bullets and got myself some 1mr 4198 that was recommended by a friend. been reading lee 2nd edition until my eyeballs bleed. trying to acquire as many reference points as possible to reach some consensus. i have plenty of time to get it right so their is no need to get educated fast so that i don't blow myself up.
it wasn't screaming obvious that i was looking at trapdoor loads while looking at u.s. gov. i would prefer to not assume that 45-70 u.s. gov was referencing a load for trapdoor. i doubt that i will put anything into motion until my conclusions are solid and coincide with any consensus. so far it's been very enlightening and interesting journey with still a long way to to go.
Modern GBL, you should be good to go on all loads except heavy(which I believe are reserved for actions such as the Ruger#1)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
someone just turned the light on. after stumbling around like a drunk in the dark looking for the light switch, i believe i got. i'm pretty sure that

i will have more questions regarding my 45-70.

thank you all
 
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