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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

I have been experiencing extraction issues using Hornady FTX projectiles. I'm not ruling out hot loads which is what I assumed initially and then I changed powders. All loads are under powder manufacture's recommended maximum's. I have used AR2208 (Target) and had trouble working my leaver post firing at 1 grain under max. Last weekend I tried AR 2206H (which I think is H4895), this time still hard to eject but not as bad by any means. Next for me is [email protected] (Benchmark). I have never had issues with 150gn round nose bullets. I use two different sets of dies, one for my 150gn RN's and another for the Hornady FTX just because didn't think about a universal crimp back then and could be stuffed if I was going to adjust dies for the crimp.

I did hear of people who load FTX projectiles, trimming their brass a little more which I don't really understand unless you had feeding issues. The brass on my RN's is cut to the same length as the FTX's.

The following is from the ADI website using 06H which is the last powder I used. I started loading at 28.6gn's and the leaver wasn't smooth like the 150 RN's. For the American's here here is a powder equivalent chart Powder equivalents noting that ADI make a lot (not all) of Hodgkin's powders.

Azure Rectangle Font Aqua Electric blue


Any thoughts people might have would be appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You don't mention which rifle or which caliber. But it might not be pressure. Time to check other possible causes.

Were these rounds fired under very hot temperature conditions? Or had they been sitting in direct sunlight?

Make sure your brass cases are within specs and not too long. Are you using military surplus or military recycled brass? Military brass is thicker and less less case volume. Normal loads for civilian brass will produce higher pressures in military cases.

It could be a rough chamber. Examine it as best you can for roughness or any corrosion. Scrub it out well with a bronze brush and steel wool. (We used to hone our shotgun chambers for cowboy action shooting, so that the empty hulls would just fall out. All it was doing was smoothing out the chambers, not enlarging them.)

It could be a headspace issue. That's checked with a Go/No Go gauge.

Make sure all lube has been removed from the cases after loading them.

It's probably also worthwhile to mic your bullet diameters, just in case.

You asked for thoughts and suggestions.
Rifle is a Marlin 336 SS in 30-30win
Moderate temperatures around 30 degrees Celsius shot both in the shade and in the open.
Brand new brass and trimmed to length (not minimum but within SAAMI range and same length as the brass used with the 150RN's)
I will check the chamber. no issues with 150 RN's. Hope not a round chamber as the rifle has done around 100 rounds only
I don't have a Go/No Go but if that's the likely issue then I'm happy to invest in one.
No lube on cases
Yes I will check the bullet diameters tonight to be sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Check to make sure that you are using #30395 and not #30396 projectiles.
The latter is for 308 marlin express and has a different shape and cannellure location. Make a dummy round and seat bullet to cannellure (no crimp). Load dummy into rifle and then extract. If bullet is pushed further into neck, then brass is too long. If point of bullet catches on ejection port when ejecting cartridge, the case is too long. If you are reloading LVR factory brass it may be shorter than other brass,try using this for your FTX reloads or trim other brass to the same length as LVR factory brass.
regards,
I was excited there for a moment and I was hoping you were right in that I had bought the wrong projectiles. Alas I have the #30395's. My issue isn't one of ejection, rather extraction. All cases are trimmed to just above minimum spec and even after firing are still under max ie 51.66mm (2.0338583")
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hornady #10 would say your over the Max COL for the 160gn FTX.
Thanks for that. I didn't validate it against my Hornday manual but rather other sources I have. Interesting that Hornady take a more conservative approach. I have now looked up my 11th Edition of the same manual and interestingly they use the same max length as the SAAMI spec for their 150gn RN's but shorter for the FTX's. I will trim and seat slightly lower and see how I go. I'm really starting to regret buying these FTX's. Assuming this is the issue, I wonder why there is an extraction issue given the spent case is still under maximum. I might compare length to Ogive between the 150 RN's and the 160 FTX's. Thanks for pointing this out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Lazy B:
Have you ever thought about dropping the powder charge to the starting load? Check extraction at that level. Rifles don't read manuals, a tight bore, tight throat, or tight chamber will affect pressure. Not all rifles are the same.
I'm starting to think about that and I know what you're saying. Given my 150gn RN's run hotter than these 160 FTX's I had that further down my list of probabilities yet still on it. ie I run about .2 grains under max on my 150's yet getting extraction challenges at 1.6grains under max with the FTX's. Thanks for the feedback BTW
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I had feeding issues with my 45/70 as the bullets wouldn't feed. The lever would pick the case up out of the mag but that was it as it wouldn't feed any further.
Turns out the OAL was a bit too long so now I've got to put about 20 rounds back into the seating die to push them in a few thousands of an inch to get it to feed properly.
They are 2 different weights BUT the longer 1 which is a 400 gn Speer is a bit too long and I did compare it to other 400 gn cases loaded and it's too long.

I'd start with checking loaded case length for a start then start eliminating other possibilities after that.

View attachment 906743
I don't have feeding issues at all. In fact the 160gn FTX's cycle perfectly, but as soon as I pull the trigger they become hard to extract. They eject fine, it's just the extraction that is difficult. 'Ol mate above pointed out that the OAL for the FTX's is shorter. In fact when I compared my Hornady manual between the 150gn RN Interlocks and the 160gn FTX's, I did notice that Hornday do list a shorter COAL for the 160's. I even checked it against the Speer loading data for their 170's that I have a couple of boxes of and Speer list the SAAMI max COAL as the max length also. For some reason these FTX's have a shorter published COAL for these 160's than for any other bullet I've found for some reason. I need to measure length to Ogive I guess to help understand why the traction is more difficult.

Thanks for taking the time out to respond. I appreciate it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
For some reason? Not all rifles are the same, Hornady is trying to tell you, go with the recommended OAL.
The reason Factory LVR Hornady brass is a hair shorter is so you don't have the very tip of the brass case mouth over the smaller part of the ogive when crimping. The bullet goes into the case deeper than the fat part of the bullet you see, & you don't want a small gap right there. you want the brass tight to the bullet.
Also It looks like a pretty fast powder, in my 336 i can load these to 2.540, thats it. If your fine with yer length, then yer too hot for yer chamber & or have a rough chamber & too hot a load for yer rifle. With that fast of powder, you are not gaining any velocity anyway.
Agreed. My Trim length is the only thing that is not within any of the limits for that particular projectile. I still don't get why other projectiles (bigger and smaller) have zero issues with the same brass using hotter charges. I do appreciate you taking the time to share your advice
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I've done successful chamber polishing a worn out chamber brush by wrapping a layer of green Scotch patch on it. Chuck it up in a hand drill and a few seconds make it like new. AC
Thanks for the tip. I still haven't checked my chamber, and while I realised there could be some issues with tooling marks, even roughness, I would hate to think a new rifle would be rough. I have no issues with other projectiles, only the FTX
 
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