I am running H4198 with the 300gr PT out of my Guide Rifle at 2325FPS. Runs really well and accuracy is excellent. Scotty
Speer 300 grain ballistics
Because the Speer 300 grain bullet is a bonded bullet and the 325 grain LE is not, I got to thinking and emailed Speer with these questions:
Coy,
Thank you. Two more 45/70 bullet questions if you will please:
1. What is the minimum impact velocity for reliable expansion for
your 300 grain and 400 grain bullets?
2. What is the maximum impact velocity for maintaining reliable
bullet integrity for your 300 and 400 grain bullets?
Richard
Their response was:
Richard: the min impact velocity will be dependent on what you hit, bone
or shoulder blade look at about 1300 fps, hide between ribs considerably
more velocity is needed.
For Max: the 300 is loaded into the 450 Marlin to about 2400 fps and the
400 in the 458 WM to about the same.
Coy
Buffalo Bore claims to push a 300 grain hollow point bullet out of the barrel of a guide gun at 2300 fps. So I put Speer's bullet in a ballistic calculator at 2300 fps. and here is the results: Note the bullet stays well above 1300 fps out to 200 yds and never climbs higher or lower than point of aim by more than 2 inches all the way out to 174 yards. Anyone know what powder combination would best achieve these results?
Output Data
Elevation: 6.150 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 174 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 149 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 85 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1843.1 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.204 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (Xsos) (ft•lbs) (sec) (in) (MOA)
20 0.3 1.3 0.1 0.4 2232.4 2.000 3319.2 0.026 0.0 0.0
30 0.7 2.4 0.2 0.6 2192.4 1.964 3201.2 0.040 0.0 0.0
40 1.2 2.7 0.3 0.8 2152.7 1.928 3086.4 0.054 0.0 0.0
50 1.5 2.8 0.5 1.0 2113.5 1.893 2974.9 0.068 0.0 0.0
60 1.7 2.7 0.8 1.2 2074.6 1.858 2866.6 0.082 0.0 0.0
70 1.9 2.6 1.1 1.4 2036.2 1.824 2761.5 0.097 0.0 0.0
80 2.0 2.4 1.4 1.7 1998.2 1.790 2659.4 0.112 0.0 0.0
90 2.0 2.1 1.8 1.9 1960.7 1.756 2560.4 0.127 0.0 0.0
100 1.9 1.8 2.2 2.1 1923.6 1.723 2464.3 0.142 0.0 0.0
110 1.7 1.5 2.7 2.3 1886.9 1.690 2371.3 0.158 0.0 0.0
120 1.4 1.1 3.2 2.6 1850.7 1.658 2281.1 0.174 0.0 0.0
130 1.0 0.8 3.8 2.8 1814.9 1.626 2193.8 0.190 0.0 0.0
140 0.5 0.4 4.5 3.1 1779.6 1.594 2109.4 0.207 0.0 0.0
150 -0.1 -0.0 5.2 3.3 1744.9 1.563 2027.8 0.224 0.0 0.0
160 -0.8 -0.5 6.0 3.6 1710.6 1.532 1948.9 0.241 0.0 0.0
170 -1.6 -0.9 6.8 3.8 1676.9 1.502 1872.8 0.259 0.0 0.0
180 -2.6 -1.4 7.7 4.1 1643.7 1.472 1799.4 0.277 0.0 0.0
190 -3.7 -1.8 8.7 4.4 1611.1 1.443 1728.7 0.296 0.0 0.0
200 -4.9 -2.3 9.7 4.6 1579.0 1.414 1660.6 0.315 0.0 0.0
And here is the acid test: http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,80149.0.html
Coy,
Thank you. Two more 45/70 bullet questions if you will please:
1. What is the minimum impact velocity for reliable expansion for
your 300 grain and 400 grain bullets?
2. What is the maximum impact velocity for maintaining reliable
bullet integrity for your 300 and 400 grain bullets?
Richard
Their response was:
Richard: the min impact velocity will be dependent on what you hit, bone
or shoulder blade look at about 1300 fps, hide between ribs considerably
more velocity is needed.
For Max: the 300 is loaded into the 450 Marlin to about 2400 fps and the
400 in the 458 WM to about the same.
Coy
Buffalo Bore claims to push a 300 grain hollow point bullet out of the barrel of a guide gun at 2300 fps. So I put Speer's bullet in a ballistic calculator at 2300 fps. and here is the results: Note the bullet stays well above 1300 fps out to 200 yds and never climbs higher or lower than point of aim by more than 2 inches all the way out to 174 yards. Anyone know what powder combination would best achieve these results?
Output Data
Elevation: 6.150 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 174 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 149 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 85 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1843.1 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.204 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (Xsos) (ft•lbs) (sec) (in) (MOA)
20 0.3 1.3 0.1 0.4 2232.4 2.000 3319.2 0.026 0.0 0.0
30 0.7 2.4 0.2 0.6 2192.4 1.964 3201.2 0.040 0.0 0.0
40 1.2 2.7 0.3 0.8 2152.7 1.928 3086.4 0.054 0.0 0.0
50 1.5 2.8 0.5 1.0 2113.5 1.893 2974.9 0.068 0.0 0.0
60 1.7 2.7 0.8 1.2 2074.6 1.858 2866.6 0.082 0.0 0.0
70 1.9 2.6 1.1 1.4 2036.2 1.824 2761.5 0.097 0.0 0.0
80 2.0 2.4 1.4 1.7 1998.2 1.790 2659.4 0.112 0.0 0.0
90 2.0 2.1 1.8 1.9 1960.7 1.756 2560.4 0.127 0.0 0.0
100 1.9 1.8 2.2 2.1 1923.6 1.723 2464.3 0.142 0.0 0.0
110 1.7 1.5 2.7 2.3 1886.9 1.690 2371.3 0.158 0.0 0.0
120 1.4 1.1 3.2 2.6 1850.7 1.658 2281.1 0.174 0.0 0.0
130 1.0 0.8 3.8 2.8 1814.9 1.626 2193.8 0.190 0.0 0.0
140 0.5 0.4 4.5 3.1 1779.6 1.594 2109.4 0.207 0.0 0.0
150 -0.1 -0.0 5.2 3.3 1744.9 1.563 2027.8 0.224 0.0 0.0
160 -0.8 -0.5 6.0 3.6 1710.6 1.532 1948.9 0.241 0.0 0.0
170 -1.6 -0.9 6.8 3.8 1676.9 1.502 1872.8 0.259 0.0 0.0
180 -2.6 -1.4 7.7 4.1 1643.7 1.472 1799.4 0.277 0.0 0.0
190 -3.7 -1.8 8.7 4.4 1611.1 1.443 1728.7 0.296 0.0 0.0
200 -4.9 -2.3 9.7 4.6 1579.0 1.414 1660.6 0.315 0.0 0.0
And here is the acid test: http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,80149.0.html
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
I have run that bullet at 2200 fps with no apparent misbehaviour by the bullet. I run it at that velocity to emulate my .30-30's trajectory.
Scotty, along with all the 'warnings", caveat,s. etc, please give me you load with the H4198 and the 300 Nosler. I shoot 47gr behind the Hornady 350RN now.
Hey buddy I am using Winchester cases, CCI BR2's and 59gr's of H4198. Runs 2325 outta my guide rifle without issues. Ran up to 60 but 59 was more accurate and man what a smashing good load! Scotty
Wow, 59grs of H4198 ought to get that puppy up and running,ha. I'll back off 1% ( I'm 'teasing"!!) I'll back off 10% and work up. I shot some pretty warm loads with R7 and the Remington 300HP, but accuracy, and at the time, my shoulder/cheek "suffered". Ha. I just got my rifle back from my smith friend today. It now has a Happy Trigger, a 1/16" flat gold bead and an 8oz "mercury recoil reducer" in the buttstock. Hopefully, I can get away a few hours tomorrow and see if I can hang onto it,ha. Thanks for the recipe.
It does jump around some but I have the Limbsaver on mine and a cheek piece to keep that stock from beating me around. That Happy Trigger is on my To Do list. Shot my buddies XLR with the Happy Trigger and man, it is nice. I would like to do the Lever Loop at the same time. My buddy is shooting just about the same load as me outta his XLR and getting 2400 with the 24" barrel. Really brings the old 45-70 up to speed. Scotty
I went back and checked my notes from a few weeks ago. I got the best accuracy with 48gr H4198 and the Remington 300HP. I had found some data that showed 60gr Max for a similar 300 gr, and tried one load, 57gr. Poor accuracy, though I could have gone hotter, I didn't see the need. My little Microgroove barrel just seems to prefer the Hornady 350 for jacketed. Later on, I'll try the 350 Bearttoth PDL over H4198; it did not like R7 at all. I could live the rest of my life with the Hornady 350's, so not complaining.
After seeing how well those 350's bold up I would hunt just about anything with that Hornady at 2100 or so. Very stout bullet! Plus again the hang together like a premium and cost very little compared to Northfork or Swift. I love the 300 grain PT but once those are gone the 350's will do just fine I believe. Can't wait to get them hunting. Scotty
My 350 Hornady load goes about 1980fps, and 1.5" w/peep, so I am good to go on it. I loaded up some more Speer 300's , this time over H322. Hogdon data shows 63gr as Max, so we will see how they shoot next week. Man I sure would likw to get them to shoot as for what I want, they would do JimDandy. I am also going to check my 444P with the factory 265FTX LE load for accuracy, speed. I'm thinking I would like to shoot a deer with this load. I have to admit, I find the MG barrels are more finicky to load for than the Ballard rifling barrels. I just like a faster twist/deeper rifling. Years ago i shot some 300gr Nosler PT in a Browning 1886 carbine. I sold them all with the Browning, shame, as Nosler always seem to get more velocity than other makes, except maybe the Barnes TSX designs.
Anything around 2000 with that 350 has to be an awesome big game taker. Can't see needing much more.
Man that 444 keeps evading me. I had a nice one in my hands at one point with the extra money and set it down. Hope to find another one later on. I really like these Marlins and once I have the 444 I will be pretty complete with the models I want. They are just excellent rifles and shoot better than they should. Looking forward to your range results with the Hornady. Scotty
Man that 444 keeps evading me. I had a nice one in my hands at one point with the extra money and set it down. Hope to find another one later on. I really like these Marlins and once I have the 444 I will be pretty complete with the models I want. They are just excellent rifles and shoot better than they should. Looking forward to your range results with the Hornady. Scotty
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
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