[papajohn]

When T-Bone sold off a few guns to finance his .308 Precision Rifle, he had about 25 of these Speer bullets left, and he gave them to me. I loaded up 20 of them over 36.5 grains of AA-2230 and shot them this week, and results were disappointing at best...........about 5 inches at 50 yards. This looks like a really good bullet for pig hunting, maybe even better than the Hornady 220, but that rifle has never shot so poorly, even with my clumsy first attempts at casting bullets. The bore is clean, so it's not a fouling issue, I'm dumbfounded that a bullet that costs what this one does can shoot so badly. A 1-12" twist is plenty ample to stabilize it.

I guess another powder is the first thing I'll try, maybe a dose of RE-7 or 4895 would do the trick.

Any thoughts? It wouldn't be a big deal, but I liked the bullet profile so much I ordered two more boxes of these, now I'm wondering what to do with them if they just won't shoot.

 

[Hunterj50]

I had very similar results. I used this bullet to help break in my 38-55 rebore. About 4-5 inches every 5 shot group. I figured it might have to do with the bores 3 groove rifling, the 1-15 twist or the low velocity (1400fps) i was using. Didnt really worry worry about it as I was going to use strictly cast bullets anyway.

I also remember reading somewhere that these bullets have pretty hard jackets and do not engage the rifling that well at lower velocities. Don't know if that is right or not.

 

[T-Bone]

PJ,

I haven't loaded for .375 Win. I tried Load From A Disk and it recommends 30.7 gr of RL-7 as optimal for a 20" barrel. I guessed at a 20" barrel. I took the defaults for the case dimensions and COAL (2.560).

86.4% load density (as in how full)
41911 CUP
MV = 1902 fps

It also says to compare to a loading manual. Does this sound at all sane? I checked in Speer #14 and this is near minimum and probably a pretty good guess on the speed. Load From A Disk likes 85-90% full cases for best accuracy. 90% would be 32 grains at 45461 CUP and 1982 fps. I hope this helps.

 

[papajohn]

Thanks Bill, I tried the AA-2230 load because it was less than maximum but still offered a goodly amount of thump (at both ends) but I think RE-7 looks like the better choice. I'm not a "Hot Load" reloader, but if I'm going to use this to bash a porker, I want a fair amount of velocity to insure penetration and good expansion. The AA-2230 load was a full four grains UNDER maximum, but the RE-7 data sounds a little hot to me, I'll likely load about 28.5 and see how the gun likes it. And you guessed right, my barrel is 20 inches.

See you tomorrow, if all goes well. I think you need to shoot my 375! 8)

 

[M700]

Interesting PJ - I've used them from my .375 H&H, and have seen good results. The little 235 gr Speers work great from that rifle:

When I slammed one into the water jugs, it expanded well, without coming apart:

Roughly MOA accuracy, not as good as 260 - 300 grain bullets I've tried from the rifle, but good. A friend used them extensively from his .375 on elk and mule deer over the years and referred to the results on game as "a train wreck." I think he meant that things died fast when hit with the little 235 Speer bullet, after all, he kept using them!

Wonder why they don't shoot well from your rifle? One of those unexplained "things" I guess. Meaning there's a reason, I just don't know what it is!

Guy

 

[CalvinMD]

I really think its going to just be a matter of finding that magic powder and loading combo.....it will come I'm sure

 

[Barenjager]

Like Guy, I tried these in my Sako Safari .375 H&H many years ago with very good results, accuracy-wise. A great bullet for the old H&H on thin-skinned game. I was pushing them to 3000 fps or a bit more and getting groups right around an inch at 100 yards.

Shame to waste all those bullets. I'd offer you my Safari, but it not for sale...but there are plenty of other .375 H&H rifles out there. Everyone should have a .375 at least once in a lifetime. In St. Louis, it would be handy for stopping charging Buicks and Caddies...with 300 grain solids, of course.

Roe

 

[CalvinMD]

Everyone should have a .375 at least once in a lifetime. In St. Louis, it would be handy for stopping charging Buicks and Caddies...with 300 grain solids, of course.

Roe

Even the ones with spinner rims???? ;D

 

[papajohn]

I wish I could find some RE-15 to try. Maybe I'll give H322 or IMR-4198 another spin. Anybody got a favorite recipe with that bullet in the 375 Winnie?

 

[T-Bone]

PJ,

I think I have some. How many were you thinking of loading?

 

[Barenjager]

Even the ones with spinner rims???? ;D

Especially the ones with spinner rims! :

Roe

 

[papajohn]

I think I have some. How many were you thinking of loading?

Probably 20 or so. Going with 4198 first. You donating powder to the King of the Hoarders? Kind of ironic, if you think about it. ;D

Need some Varget? I have LOTS. Wanna try some 8028? 4064? 3031? H380? I even have a can of 2000-MR I thought I'd try, it's Alliant's new BALL powder. Got lots of AA powders too. I have quite a selection.

 

[Mr Fixit]

Probably 20 or so. Going with 4198 first. You donating powder to the King of the Hoarders? Kind of ironic, if you think about it. ;D

Need some Varget? I have LOTS. Wanna try some 8028? 4064? 3031? H380? I even have a can of 2000-MR I thought I'd try, it's Alliant's new BALL powder. Got lots of AA powders too. I have quite a selection.

Who needs the Midway or any other place that sells powder when you can just go to the KING PJ! ;D Mr fixit

 

[papajohn]

There was a change of plans today..............I loaded 20 rounds with a compressed charge of IMR-4895, my old favorite standby. I'll see if the gun likes it better, it can't be much worse than the AA-2230 load! I have so many powders that might work well it's tough to pick one. Ah, the agony of being a powder hoarder........... :

 

[jeepster360mag]

So you can seat that bullet to a COAL of 2.55" or less? It cycles through action (2 shot style) ok? I my have to add that bullet to the 375 JCC list to try. The bolt gun should push it to 2550-2600pfs no problem. 2400fps in the marlin should be easy also.

Johyn

 

[papajohn]

So you can seat that bullet to a COAL of 2.55" or less?

Nope! Not with 35.0 grains of 4895 in there! OAL was 2.633", and they will NOT cycle through the action at that length, if I want to shorten the round I'll have to use less powder and/or a faster one. I wanted 100% powder density and good ballistics, but the load is actually a maximum 38/55 recipe for a heavier bullet. I may wind up using 3031 or 4198 before it's over, but I wanted to see if an old favorite powder would give me the accuracy I seek first. What's the point of having all these powders if you don't get to experiment with them once in a while?

 

[jeepster360mag]

By the speer#14 manual 3031 at 35grs max is compressed also. IMR 4198 looks like a good bet at 32gr. max with a COAL of 2.560. 2.55 should work i would think if the ogive hasn't started into the case mouth. I guess that is what i would like to find out...........

John

 

[Halwg]

Probably 20 or so. Going with 4198 first. You donating powder to the King of the Hoarders? Kind of ironic, if you think about it. ;D

Need some Varget? I have LOTS. Wanna try some 8028? 4064? 3031? H380? I even have a can of 2000-MR I thought I'd try, it's Alliant's new BALL powder. Got lots of AA powders too. I have quite a selection.

PJ, I'll be interested to see if changing powder makes much of a difference. I have found that if a particular bullet doesn't shoot well in a particular gun, powder might help it a bit, but I never got satisfactory results. I wasted a lot of powder over the years trying to get bullets to shoot well in a particular gun. Nowadays, if I find this scenario, I simply move on to a different bullet.

Post your results and prove my theory wrong.

 

[papajohn]

I have found that if a particular bullet doesn't shoot well in a particular gun, powder might help it a bit, but I never got satisfactory results.

Hal, I'm also convinced that most guns seem to prefer certain bullets, and switching powders is often a waste of time. But I have quite a few of these to experiment with, so I figured trying 10 or 20 with each powder might be enough to prove us right or wrong about that. We'll see how it goes. I'm already convinced that nothing is going to shoot as well as the Hornady 220, but I was hoping for better. This gun doesn't care much for the Sierra 200 either, and the ogive on this Speer 235 is quite a bit different than the 220, so maybe that's the key, but it's worth wasting some time and powder to see if we're both right, or if there's hope despite early signs of inaccuracy. I'll keep you posted. 8)