At the speeds generated from a .357 carbine, even if the bullets blow up they should get deep enough penetration for human targets. Go with 125 grain JHP. I like Remington, but anyone's should suffice.
Self defense loads in a rifle?
I will be keeping my Marlin lever gun in 357 mag as a home defense option. Since I get plenty of extra velocity from that 20 inch barrel I am looking for a milder self defense factory load to use. What say you? Please; no 38 Special loads; I have had it with trying to keep a 357 chamber clean after shooting 38's in one. Thanks...
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I have had good luck with the hornady xtp really quite mild in a revolver but does a number on deer. I dont know how fast tehy would be out of a carbine but Im sure tehy would be plesent. if Imay ask why are you looking for a milder round? are you worried about over penetration?
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=412571
if overpenetration is a problem extreme shock has some pricey but very good ammo. it literally enters the target and disinegrates not to mention it is only 115 grains so it will be mild
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=120141
hopefully this helps
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=412571
if overpenetration is a problem extreme shock has some pricey but very good ammo. it literally enters the target and disinegrates not to mention it is only 115 grains so it will be mild
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=120141
hopefully this helps
I completely understand your wanting to go with 357 rather than 38, so I'm not meaning to sound argumentative or anything here. But one point about using 38's as your hd ammunition: you probably won't ever actually have to fire it for that purpose. You'd maybe want to test fire a few, but not necessarily enough to cause worries about fouling. You could just put some good 38+p's in there and let them sit until you head to the range. Take them out, put in your 357's, and fire away. Then clean and reload with the 38's when you get home.GaryO said:Please; no 38 Special loads; I have had it with trying to keep a 357 chamber clean after shooting 38's in one.
I've got Speer Gold Dot 125gr hp's in mine. One extra round, very quiet, no recoil, and they feed perfectly. More than enough power if I should ever need them. On the other hand, as it happens, I almost exclusively shoot 38's through my 1894, and I really don't mind the chore of cleaning the chamber. But even if I hated it, it would be the last thing I'd be worrying about when it came to choosing hd ammo.
Incidentally, I have no idea whether the 38's hit a velocity where the 125 grain bullets are likely to disintegrate. One reason I went with Speer is their much vaunted bonding technique that allegedly keeps jacket and core together. But I don't have anywhere to shoot these rounds and check out the results.
When I went into police work about 25 yrs ago, our dept used Reminton 357 magnum 125 gr. jacketed hollow points as our duty round. At that time we had 13 shootings involving this cartridge. Of the 13, twelve were pushing up daisies and the other had been wounded...that is the round that I load in my 1894 C. Have a good day.
??? I'm deleting the weird double post I apparently somehow generated. Sorry!
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
One may also want to consider penetration of walls, both interior and exterior when considering a hd round. If you live alone out in the country, go with what makes you feel safe. Last summer my 45/70 with Buffalo Bore 405's was my "hd" choice, but the nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile and there was a brown bear causing troubles in our neighborhood.. 
I also recommend either 125 .357s, or even 110s if you can find them. Since I have no qualms about .38 Special loadings for home defense (you are not likely to use many, as opposed to target work and hunting/plinking,) I like 95 and 110 grain Silvertips. There are (or at least were) several loads designed for urban use. One used three really short projectiles stacked atop one another. Another utilizes a vertically segmented bullet that fragmented upon striking. I still have a box of .357s that have a primer and a small powder charge in the nose, that is designed to explode the bullet if it strikes a hard surface. If you have a "cop shop" in your area, see what they have. I have been retired for a dozen years and am kind of out of the loop. I am happy with my small stash of HD loadings. Best wishes, Jack
I use a 200gr Speer Gold Dot with a light load of Unique in my 44-40 HD rounds. About the equivilant of a 44 Special.
44-40 Willy,
It wasn't that long ago that I took a concealed carry course and the instructor emphasized that you should never use reloaded ammo for self defense purposes. It's just one more thing for the lawyer of a deceased criminal to use to defeat you in a court room. That said, if it comes down to the safety of your family vs. a criminal intent on harming them you're not going to worry about what loads are in the gun. Hopefully, none of us ever have to use a gun in self defense.
It wasn't that long ago that I took a concealed carry course and the instructor emphasized that you should never use reloaded ammo for self defense purposes. It's just one more thing for the lawyer of a deceased criminal to use to defeat you in a court room. That said, if it comes down to the safety of your family vs. a criminal intent on harming them you're not going to worry about what loads are in the gun. Hopefully, none of us ever have to use a gun in self defense.
I've heard it said also, but fail to put any stock in it. Would it make a difference if you used a baseball bat that you made on a lathe or one you bought from a store if that was what you used instead? We've just become scared of the USA (United States of Attorneys).simangus said:44-40 Willy,
It wasn't that long ago that I took a concealed carry course and the instructor emphasized that you should never use reloaded ammo for self defense purposes. It's just one more thing for the lawyer of a deceased criminal to use to defeat you in a court room.
Dont tell anyone I told you this, but in WWII they used to take their 45acp and cut a cross half way to the case in the center of the lead. It was called a dumb-dumb round.
A Ranch Dog big meplat works real good.
They splatter on contact.
A Ranch Dog big meplat works real good.
They splatter on contact.
The 30-30 is more typical for me in the less congested areas of my farm, but in town it's 12ga all the way. Still, I have this neet little 1894 PG, that begs to have something other than the 44 slecial LSWC's that I have handloaded. What about some of the Winchester Silvertips. I was thinking they were a more mild load in my hanguns. I think the lead and aluminum alloy construction might be just the ticket. Any thoughts?
Bestboss
Bestboss
The easy, polite question when you hear something like this is, "Wow, that's concerning; what's the case name and citation so I can see the arguments?" Just because someone has a CCW instructor certification doesn't mean they're a lawyer, and an awful lot of mythology (often born of partial information and a lack of understanding) surrounds civil litigation, civil liability, tortious behaviors, and proper legal defenses.simangus said:44-40 Willy,
It wasn't that long ago that I took a concealed carry course and the instructor emphasized that you should never use reloaded ammo for self defense purposes. It's just one more thing for the lawyer of a deceased criminal to use to defeat you in a court room.
I recently attended a defensive driving course (the NHTSA curriculum) wherein the instructor, a retired police officer with 30 years experience, told the class some of the most outrageous, steaming piles of mule cookies as it had ever been my displeasure to hear. Folks believed him because he was the 'expert.' I was reminded throughout of the experiments of Dr. Stanley Milgram on obedience to malevolent authority. . .
Why would you do such a thing when there are so many well designed hollow point bullets widely available?Pard said:Dont tell anyone I told you this, but in WWII they used to take their 45acp and cut a cross half way to the case in the center of the lead. It was called a dumb-dumb round.
A Ranch Dog big meplat works real good.
They splatter on contact.
Georgia-Arms sells a 357 mag cowboy load at 800 fps from a revolver which would be about 1200 fps from a rifle. Very soft lead that would certainly expand and it certainly is a mild load. A little finesse with a drill bit would turn them into a 38 special FBI +P load from your rifle but in 357 mag brass.
http://georgia-arms.com/357magnum158grrdnoseflatpt50pk.aspx
http://georgia-arms.com/357magnum158grrdnoseflatpt50pk.aspx
I guess you would have to see what they do. You can do it cheaply to cast roundsimashooter2 said:Why would you do such a thing when there are so many well designed hollow point bullets widely available?
Besides they are highly illegal to use.
All reloaded or altered ammo in our state will get you an automatic 3-5 years.
What state is it that don't allow reloads? I want to make sure I don't go anywhere near there.
sox, elcome to MO, first off and emjoy yourself here. I too was in law enforcement, started in 1976 with a .357. At that time the Federal 125 gr. jacketed hollowpoint was the round to use, had a 92% i shot stop capability if I remember right. Take care, John.
Wow, that's concerning; what's the statute number so I can read the text?Pard said:I guess you would have to see what they do. You can do it cheaply to cast rounds
Besides they are highly illegal to use.
All reloaded or altered ammo in our state will get you an automatic 3-5 years.
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