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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know it is sacralige to use anything but iron sights on a lever gun but I can not get good enough groups with the Williams Foolproof and fiber optic front sight, at 100 yards.The rounds are all over the place like maybe 5 inch.So I thought maybe do a scope. what would be the one to use ? Thank you for any advice
 

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That's not too horrible with sights, but it's not too good, either. I'm thinking you might have issues with the way you're shooting and if that's the case, a scope won't help you much. If you can't see out that far or can't focus the sights on target, that's a different situation. If you can, have a buddy shoot your gun and see how it goes with him. (The out of the box triggers are a little stiff on some of the Marlins...if it sucks too bad, a little extra effort might be needed to tighten those groups down some). As far as scopes go, I like Leupold or Burris.....have heard good and bad about all the different ones, tho.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ya know Tub someone else said the same thing to me that the target I brought in to the store was okiay he said some more practice would tighten up the groups and wed he is shooting the gun to see for himself.
 

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The 1-4 Leupold or the 2-7 Leupold would be a good choice, another scope you might consider is the Sightron. Midway usually has pretty good prices on them.
 

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billykaldrich said:
ya know Tub someone else said the same thing to me that the target I brought in to the store was okiay he said some more practice would tighten up the groups and wed he is shooting the gun to see for himself.
Yeah.....I've found that out the hard way.....I've bought scopes a couple times and it didn't do any good. Sometimes the gun is a dud and nothing helps. That's why I mentioned another person shooting it.
 

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Been my expierience folks that shoot often won't gain a lot from a scope over a peep at 100yds using factory fodder if you are shooting from a bench with bags to rest on. I would not put any name to it if you don't shoot from a rest. Don't know what you are shooting out of your weapon, if it is factory and you don't reload check other brands, use the best your rifle shoots and stick with it. I would personally urge you to get into reloading and develope a good load for your weapon, using a high power scope to develope your loads if not check your groups with a high powered scope anyway, then check your groups using your peep I do believe you will be surprised as to how accurate you are with them iron sights. Most often when I do load developement at 100yds I use a 40X power scope that does take a lot of bull out of it and when you can put a 1/8th minute dot inside a notebook reinforcement and hold it there while you are pulling the trigger you can be sure as to what the ammo and rifle is capable of. I've seen a lot of "shot out firearms" shoot very well using this as a test. Oh yeah a scope for your 336 use a intermediate eye relief scope around 2X mount it as far fwd as possible in standare mounts you'll be glad at that choice as it gives you good quick target aquirement and with both eyes open keep you on the target. Plus them little stubby scopes just look like they belong on a lever after you mount it.
 

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Simmons 2x shotgun scope. Small, lightweight, 6 inch eye relief, good FOV, not expensive (around $100). File an extra cross-slot in the Weaver base and you can mount it forward of the hammer spur, about even with the rear of the receiver.

Live well
 

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Personally I would mount a scope even if it were a borrowed one of good quality. That way you know if you are having issues with the sights or possibly your ammo is only going to give you 5" groups at 100. Once you know what a load is capable of doing in your rifle work towards it's capability with whatever sights you choose. Your post doesn't tell us if these are factory or reloads and in either case how much experimentation you have done for good groups. Sighting in a Remington 7400 with a buddy mostly showed us what his gun did not like. He had three different loads. Two bullet weights in one brand and a duplicate bullet weight in another. Very frustrating, yet a few weeks later he found one factory load that comes in very close to MOA regularly. Just echoing what others have said only a dud gun might not be all of it, some guns are very particular about what they shoot well but thats part of the fun finding out what works best for you in that gun.

One of my 336's wears a Nikon 4x 'rimfire' scope. Works well and mostly I have no complaints until I put my eyes on someones rig that used a compact scope... they do look more correct with a shorter scope tube. Personally because of wierd eye dominance problems I have to close one eye to shoot a rifle regardless of sight type. (getting that way handgun too) In my case I had very few dollars so wanted the best scope I could afford and went fixed power for a better IMO $ to quality ratio. Settled on 4X because it is a common magnification and split the difference optically with close shots in brush and enough power to see and shoot to 200 yds with my eyes.

I had reservations about scoping a levergun but decided for hunting optics were better for me than worring about what the guys in camp might think. Now I wear a knowing smile after dialing the scope at the range and turning in better groups than many of the guys shooting high dollar magnum blaster 3000's. I must stop now or the rant will only get worse.

B
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Range Wedesday

We go in the morning and we will shoot different loads and my friend will shoot it also he recommended the Williams to me so he is concerned.Hunting Sat thru wed next week hope we can work out the bugs or the Remington 700 goes in the brush with me
 

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The Bushnell Banner 1.5-4.5X32, got them on 13 models of Marlin rifles. Only $60 through D&R Sportscenter. A forum (MarlinTalk) member recommended this scope to me about four years ago and I liked it so well I re-equiped every rifle I had with one so the sight picture is always the same. I have used the Bushnell Banner series of scopes continuously since 1968.



When I was looking for a scope for my Marlin I tried several of the scopes intended for shotgun use. The problem with them is that the parallax is set a 50-yards vs. 100-yards on a fixed objective rifle scope. It makes a difference because at rifle shot yardages the crosshairs will appear to move off target with head movement. You move your head position slightly, the rifle appears to move off target, you readjust, shoot, and miss.
 

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My 35 Remington wears a 4X pistol scope in a Scout Mount, and I plan on doing the same to all my other Marlins before I'm done. One of the best things about leverguns is the way they carry and balance, and a scope on the receiver ruins that. But put it out on the barrel, and it retains the balance & carryability, plus it lets you shoot with both eyes open. That's a definite advantage when Bambi jumps up forty feet in front of you and tries to break the sound barrier getting to the next county!

BTW, "Scouted" guns also look VERY cool! 8)

Papajohn
 

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I've got over 800 rounds through my 444T today, all heavy loads, no problems. I also have the scope on a 336ER (356 Win), 375 (had it on two but sold one rifle), 444P, 1895G (45-70), and 1895MR (450 Marlin). There has been several thousand rounds of ammo through these heavy hitters and I haven't had a problem.

When I mounted the scope on my 444P, the elevation adjustments felt "soft" and I just didn't feel the "clicks" like I wanted to. I put up with it for a while and then just followed the warranty instructions (Box it up and include $10). Five days later a new scope was sitting on my rifle. The scope was fine, it just didn't have positive "clicks".

I was told that all the Bushnell scopes are tested by a 12 gauge shotgun recoil simulator. The Elite models are tested by a 375 H&H Mag simulator.
 

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For clarity and duribility Leupold is the scope. I have a Bushnell Elite on my mod 93 Savage 22 mag and it is a great scope but not as clear as the Leupold Vari X II 1-4 x20 that has been on my BLR for the past 30 years.

Never lost it's "0" either. I adjusted one time to compensate for a lighter bullet.

There are other good scopes, but I will cast my lot with what I have utter confidence in.

SS
 

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RD have you had much trouble with the parallax thing? When I was studying on a scope to replace a piece of garbage with some lenses in it I wanted a good scope for the $$ I had at the time. I ended up with that Nikon I'm using but I didn't know squat about parallax at the time(don't know much more now :D ). That scope is set up for rim fire guns and a 50 yd Objective. Most of the reading I've done claims that a short parallax isn't a big deal at low power and since mine is a fixed 4X I personally haven't had any issues with it. That and I haven't really shot much over 100 yards or so with this combo either and I guess how far the target is past the Objective plays a large part the cross hair 'shift'.

As to the balance thing and scopes my experience has been anything added in front of or behind the balance point of the bare rifle changes things. Scopes mounted forward, recoil pads and spare ammo cuffs to the butt etc. For me as close as I can for eye relief I mount the center of the scope over the balance point.

The biggest gripe I had with shotgun scopes for rifle use were the reticles; thick view blocking things usually with a large, very large enter aming point, which I'm sure work great on turkey, but at the ranges slug guns with rifled barrels are capable these seemed a little course for deer.
 

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Bman,

Very good observations regarding optics. I too was frustrated by a thick reticle when a shop owner suggested a shotgun scope for my muzzle loader. It really was not that bad but I suppose it's a mental thing with me. If I'm gonna make a bad shot I want to be something I did in the shooting process. Choosing equipment that "good enough" instead of the right equipment increases the variables of things that can go wrong.

SS
 

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my old 336 in 30-30 Ackley still has the Lyman side mounted receiver sight, and it still shoots great.
My newer 336Y has an older Redfield Five Star 1 X 4 variable. I have found the older Redfield Five Star 20mm scopes to be exellent scopes.
My 1894S .44 mag Marlin has another older scope, a Weaver V4.5 with Post reticle. My Savage 170 pump 30-30 wears another Redfield, this on a 2 X 7 variable.
 

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I'm with Ranchdog, the low power variable from Bushnell is clear as possible and rugged enough for my 45-70 which it is on now but I initially got it for my 30-30. Best scope for the money.
 

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Ranch Dog said:
The Bushnell Banner 1.5-4.5X32, got them on 13 models of Marlin rifles. Only $60 through D&R Sportscenter. A forum (MarlinTalk) member recommended this scope to me about four years ago and I liked it so well I re-equiped every rifle I had with one so the sight picture is always the same. I have used the Bushnell Banner series of scopes continuously since 1968.



When I was looking for a scope for my Marlin I tried several of the scopes intended for shotgun use. The problem with them is that the parallax is set a 50-yards vs. 100-yards on a fixed objective rifle scope. It makes a difference because at rifle shot yardages the crosshairs will appear to move off target with head movement. You move your head position slightly, the rifle appears to move off target, you readjust, shoot, and miss.
Evening all,

Have had one on my 30-30 for 12 months, no complaints.

Bought it from D&RS.

Cheers from down under

Mark
 
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billykaldrich said:
I know it is sacralige to use anything but iron sights on a lever gun but I can not get good enough groups with the Williams Foolproof and fiber optic front sight, at 100 yards.The rounds are all over the place like maybe 5 inch.So I thought maybe do a scope. what would be the one to use ? Thank you for any advice
:D try one of williams twilite aperetures for your site,and replace the fire site with a gold or wht bead. These two changes will allow finer siting and help a whole lot with your 100yds grps. The twilite pert is designed for low lite hunting applications,but a whole lot smaller than the o0pening you were using with the aperture removed. my feeling on the firesite and peeps is the glowing effect diminshes the amount of defination you have for fine sighting. I did a quick boresite on my 35SC and had to put a higher frt site on to get adjustment with and old redfield peep.,but first tests at 25yds i was cutting holes. Gotta do some longer range testing. but as a rule if its' on at 25 yer good to 100. --Chaser11 (copied from my other post)
 
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