Same loads - two rifles and different velocities.

1568 Views 10 Replies 7 Participants Last post by janott, Mar 18, 2011

leverlad

Discussion Starter · Mar 16, 2011

Hi,

Just back from the range and was quite surprised at some data I got from some of my 45 70 loads.

I used 2 types of brass (Starline for the Ruger #1 and Remington for the 18.5' Marlin GG). The primers were Remington Large Rifle Primers and the powder was AR2207 (H4198).I used 2 rifles out of curiosity for some data collection - Someone may find something interesting so I thought i would share it ...

First Up - What i though was going to be some low powered plinking loads ...
44.5gr - AR2207(H4198) and 350gn Hard cast RNFP bullets
Marlin - 1846fps/1799/1795
Ruger - 1936/2001/1924
I was going for 1750fps ....got outstanding groups in the Ruger! GG was not too bad either.

Secondly - Some light recoiling 405gn hard cast loads ...
42 gr - AR2207(H4198) with 405gn Hard Cast RNFP bullets
Marlin - 1828/1830/1834 (consistent with ok Grouping 2.5')
Ruger - 1895/1892/1892 (very consistent velocity and good groups)
Was happy with this load....I may back it off just a tad to 41.5gr and see what happens to the groups as I think 1600/1700 would be better velocities for hard cast lead ?

Thirdly - I was going for some "Medium 405 loads"
44gr - AR2207(H4198) with same as above bullets ...
Marlin - 1921/1925/1927
Ruger - 2017/2017/2021
Recoil was stout but i think this may be too fast for Hard Cast ?? Didnt see any signs of leading and groups were acceptable but i think i would be happier with the 42gr loads for pigs ....

Later I realized I should have stuck to one brand of brass for better quality data but i use 2 brands to differentiate between the ammo for the 2 rifles as I believe the GG may not take some of the high end Ruger loads....

So there is my 2 cents worth of data - weather was good and sunny and it was fun putting lead in the air ....

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1 - 11 of 11 Posts

Ridgerunner665

· #2 · Mar 16, 2011

Exactly what boolits are you using?

1,927 fps with 44 grains of H4198...I'm thinking it seats deep in the case...this is info that we need to know.

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T-Bone

· #3 · Mar 16, 2011

Another thing we'd like to know, what is the barrel length of a Ruger #1 and I assume the GG is 18"? If you want to see the difference between the brass, you would have to shoot the two loads (and brass) in each gun. That way to can compare apples to apples. Putting different brass in two different guns makes it much harder to evaluate differences.

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janott

· #4 · Mar 16, 2011

18.5" barrel on the GG but how long was the barrel on the Ruger?

Lot of variables can cause different velocities and consistency is the best way to keep the spread from being much different. You are correct about using the same brass and it should also be from the same lot. Velocities are also effected by heat and changes as the barrel gets hotter.

The velocities are a little high for cast but you would probably be alright if the bullets have a gas check on them, or a fiber wad uder to protect the base of the bullet from hot gasses. When pushing them a little fast you would be better off with the gas check. Probably would not see leading until you shoot a lot of them.

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wavehopr

· #5 · Mar 17, 2011

In addition to the above mentioned variables, the Rem cases have just a tad less capacity, which would allow higher pressure and increase the velocity.

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Corbi

· #6 · Mar 17, 2011

wavehopr said:
In addition to the above mentioned variables, the Rem cases have just a tad less capacity, which would allow higher pressure and increase the velocity.

+1 there you go.

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leverlad

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 18, 2011

T-Bone said:
Another thing we'd like to know, what is the barrel length of a Ruger #1 and I assume the GG is 18"? If you want to see the difference between the brass, you would have to shoot the two loads (and brass) in each gun. That way to can compare apples to apples. Putting different brass in two different guns makes it much harder to evaluate differences.

Yep the GG is 18" and the Ruger is 22". I am going to use the opposite brass in the other gun this weekend to get the complete picture as you suggest. thanx....

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edk

· #8 · Mar 18, 2011

I'm impressed with your data. It looks like you may want to stick to the 405 grain boolits because of the extremely consistent velocity in both guns WITH both loads. I would be in a minority saying stay with the two brands of brass to keep loads for each gun segregated OR to keep different level loads in different brands. The consistent velocities on the 405 are the mark of a skilled reloader.

I've got the 350 RNFP plain base mould from a group buy over at castboolits, but have been concentrating on my 357 and 44 pistols/Cowboy rifles and a couple of recently acquired 30/30s. I'd also be pursuing load development for that weight in the GUIDE GUN...to facilitate a fast follow up shot by less recoil...especially if I was shooting at something that might want to chew on me!

I got to get busy with the 45/70s again.

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leverlad

Discussion Starter · #9 · Mar 18, 2011

Ridgerunner665 said:
Exactly what boolits are you using?

1,927 fps with 44 grains of H4198...I'm thinking it seats deep in the case...this is info that we need to know.

I am usung the Hawlesbury river bullet company hard cast 350gn "copperhawkes" boolits ... and the overall cartridge length once loaded is 2.465 inches...

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T-Bone

· #10 · Mar 18, 2011

Since the Ruger is 4" longer, I think you may find that the same loads will be faster in that gun since the longer barrel allows the gases to burn a bit longer (depending on the powder).

Corbi, would the smaller capacity only increase pressure if the load is slightly (or very - a very dangerous situation BTW) compressed? I always thought that in the situation where you have a bit more case capacity, your fullness of the case would become less and possibly make the round less accurate, and that 85-90% full is probably idea.

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janott

· #11 · Mar 18, 2011

I would load 10 each of the two different brass cases and fire five from each rifle.

I would also fire each round from a cool barrel.

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