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Discussion Starter #21
Sambane - I'll give it a go:

Some states have allowed only modest range firearms for deer hunting, because of high human population density. Lots of small farms. Etc... So, to decrease the danger, decades ago those deer hunters were restricted to using shotguns, muzzle loading rifles, and archery gear.

Hunters knew this was sort of silly - and kept pushing to have rifles allowed. Eventually a compromise was reached, and rifles were allowed, but still not bottleneck cartridges. The various states still restricted the type of cartridge, to "straight wall cases" or similar wording. Rifles in 44 "magnum" or 38-55 or even 45/70 were legal, but not rifles in 30-06 for instance. This recently led to the introduction of a rifle cartridge intended to fill this niche market, the 350 Legend.

Since I live "out west" none of those restrictions apply to me, though others do. I am free to use anything, 6mm and larger, for whatever big game I pursue.

I think that more or less makes sense of it. :)

Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Thread drift now being in full force... :)

Other restrictions that do apply to me, include the use of non-lead shot for all my bird hunting. This started 30 some years ago as I recall, in an effort to decrease lead poisioning of waterfowl. The whole issue is somewhat controversial, but as a result more and more areas became "non-toxic shot only" - meaning steel shot and various alternatives were all that can be used. Eventually this started including game well beyond waterfowl. Anywhere near my location, even for pheasants & chukar (partridge) is restricted to "non toxic shot."

In California, the no-lead bullet rule eventually made it into the big game fields. The struggling California Condor (one huge, ugly bird!) population is the rational for this "unleaded bullet" restriction. Fear cited was that the big birds would feed on the carcass or gut pile of animals killed by hunters, ingest a lead bullet and die. So... Barnes jumped on that potential market, with their all copper bullets. Hornady and Nosler have followed suit, offering bullets of gilding metal which is the same stuff that most bullet jackets are made of. No lead in any of those. Some of these bullets had a bit of a rocky start, but have evolved into excellent hunting bullets, known for their remarkable penetration.

It looks like there is a good chance of Oregon and Washington states eventually going to "no lead" bullets for our big game hunting as well. Which is why I have a small amount of Nosler and Barnes bullets that don't contain any lead. So I won't get caught unprepared when the rules change.

We've had other things changed by popular vote, such as outlawing the hunting of bear and cougar by use of bait or hounds. In California, there is simply no hunting of cougar, and wow, that has led to some big problems!

The whole wolf issue is amazing... Wolves were nearly gone from the west, now there are booming populations of them, with dire effects on our elk and deer herds. Also they've been preying on domestic livestock. And in some states there is still no legal hunting of wolves!

Sigh... Legislatures and voters can sure make hunting rules complicated!

Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Back to the Number One in 375 H&H... :)

I bought it used ten years ago and have taken three bear with it over the years. I've carried it for elk a couple of times, but haven't had a shot opportunity while carrying it. I figure it's "enough" cartridge for pretty much anything. Intended at one point to use it in Alaska for grizzly, but used my 30-06 for the big bear instead. Still might get the 375 Number One over to Africa for a plains game hunt. I'd enjoy that.

A prior owner of my 375 Number One took it to Africa where he used it on gemsbok and cape buffalo, among other species.

It's more powerful than I need for anything in North America, though the 375 is still quite popular "up north" where the big bears roam.

Guy
 

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Coyotes with wolf DNA have been showing up in the mid-Atlantic region. I think its only a matter of time until wolves show up in my part of VA, along with cougars (some claim to have sighted cougars in the Shenandoah National Park). It will be interesting to see if the non-lead bullet laws spread eastward. It will all depend on the state politicos unless the Feds get involved.
 

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Back to the Number One in 375 H&H... :)

I bought it used ten years ago and have taken three bear with it over the years. I've carried it for elk a couple of times, but haven't had a shot opportunity while carrying it. I figure it's "enough" cartridge for pretty much anything. Intended at one point to use it in Alaska for grizzly, but used my 30-06 for the big bear instead. Still might get the 375 Number One over to Africa for a plains game hunt. I'd enjoy that.

A prior owner of my 375 Number One took it to Africa where he used it on gemsbok and cape buffalo, among other species.

It's more powerful than I need for anything in North America, though the 375 is still quite popular "up north" where the big bears roam.

Guy
During my 2.5 year stationing at Ft Wainwight, AK---the big three rifle calibers were 300 Win Mag/338 Win Mag/375 H&H. The 45-70 was also widely used as well. Don't know how much things have changed since being there in the early 1990s. Back then--probably the 375 H&H was the most widely used since it had been around quite a few years.
Could have bought a Ruger #1 for 650 bucks at the LGS. It was a fantastic rifle but was chambered in 22-250, something I just didn't need or want. I like my Henry single shot 45-70 which is a quality rifle but it can't handle Ruger #1 loads (probably something I don't need to shoot). The Henry is probably the closest thing to Ruger from a quality perspective. One of these days I will come across a good deal on a single shot Ruger in a caliber I want.
 

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Thanks for the answers and explanations, Guy & Jay and for allowing the thread drift.

I live and use rifles in a very different environment and sometimes our baselines are very different.

We again have shooting/hunting area restrictions which make the discharging of any firearm, (including air guns) in certain areas unlawful. You have been part of my argument concerning our hunting farms & concessions (some of which are bigger than England), where hunting with these big (and medium) calibres will take place in relative safety. Shooting ranges also fall into the categories of safe shooting areas. It is of course , as it must be there, up to the shooter to make sure he is firing in a "safe for others" direction once he has made the decision to discharge a firearm.

As to the suitability of the .375 H&H, I personally have hunted a few elephants, crocodiles, buffaloes, eland and a number of medium to small antelope and guided a number of hunters making use of/with the .375 H&H. I have only praise for this calibre and it is possibly the one rifle you need here should you be so fortunate to hunt the big and small African game.

The rifles in this calibre I have used were the Mauser, CZ 550 and I owned a Sako. (I wouldn't hesitate taking your rig on any hunt here, nor guiding anyone with such, on a dangerous or non-dangerous game hunt.) The .375 H&H is certainly the choice of many hunting outfitters/guides, one-rifle-only hunters, game rangers any many others in Africa. It is also a lot more affordable than the bigger calibres and ammo can be found everywhere.

Many of my friends that specialise in hunting the small 5 also use the .375 H&H, firing solids of lighter weights and moderate velocities. They keep the trophies you see, but more often than not also hunt these in areas where there are game of substantially larger proportions and more threatening. One such friend frequently runs into leopard in the areas where he hunts. They have to be prepared both ways.

:elefant::tee::elefant:
 

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I have a #1 , #3, and Marlin 1895JM in 45/70 and like all three but can't get into them as deer rifles. I have had several #1s and all them were scoped. I take two rifles when I go out of state. One with scope and one without. When we are hunting open woods and farms fields I use the scope. I had a #1 30/06 with 4x that I used a few years for that purpose. This is the only one I actually hunted. I liked it and shot a few deer with it. The others I shot groundhogs and targets with and reguardless of cartridge I liked the #1 rifle. They all shot well and were natural pointers for me but I haven't really got that much trigger time on them as hunting rifles. I got a #1 a few months ago in 6mm PPC on a trade. I haven't shot it yet. I don't really have use for that caliber and may have it rebarreled. I was hoping for Ohio to expand caliber choices to some reasonable deer cartridges. Doesn't look like it will happen, until the day after I spend a few hundred getting a rebarrel. The average shot is less than 100yds here. I have never had a problem shooting deer with slugs I just never liked having to hunt with a shotgun. Especially when you see a big buck standing in the open out of range. This happens several times every season. Most of the straight wall cartridges aren't that much better than a slug for range, only for accuracy. I'm trying to come up with a rifle/ cartridge combination that will fill this bill. Right now I'm thinking #1 in 405win/ 4x scope. Presently fooling with Ruger #3s in 375win with spitzer bullets. I am confident soon as I put together my dream rig they will see the light and add some reasonable cartridges to the list.
 

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Thought I'd just stick my head in here again and show y'all.
I got to use my Ruger last week.

Eland Bull
Within Rowland Ward measurement while still wet : 36.5"
All up weight: 917kg
Bullet: 300gr Hornady
Rifle : Ruger M77 Hawkeye Guide Gun
Scope : Vortex 0-4
Calibre .375 Ruger
Distance: 244m
Time of day: 17:15
Shot placement: Right shoulder-heart-shoulder (clean through)
Sooting Position: Standing off shooting sticks. (After tracking it for three days)
Hunting method: Walk & stalk
Area : Northern Cape (Kalahari) South Africa

Vwuq8OO.jpg

:elefant:
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Thought I'd just stick my head in here again and show y'all.
I got to use my Ruger last week.

Eland Bull
Within Rowland Ward measurement while still wet : 36.5"
All up weight: 917kg
Bullet: 300gr Hornady
Rifle : Ruger M77 Hawkeye Guide Gun
Scope : Vortex 0-4
Calibre .375 Ruger
Distance: 244m
Time of day: 17:15
Shot placement: Right shoulder-heart-shoulder (clean through)
Sooting Position: Standing off shooting sticks. (After tracking it for three days)
Hunting method: Walk & stalk
Area : Northern Cape (Kalahari) South Africa

View attachment 762127

:elefant:
Wow! Very nice. Thanks for sharing that report & photo!

Guy
 

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Sambane may not know that some of our states have a "straight case" rule for rifle cartridges & deer hunting. It's an interesting law for sure, but hey, at least you guys get to use rifles now, not just shotguns & muzzle loaders!

Guy
Does the .444 qualify as a 'straight wall' case?
 

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444 qualifies but is not that much better than 375w or 45/70. It seems to me the best cartridge is going to be between 35 & 40 cal.
Straight case and nature of the ratio of weight is an obstacle rough to get past. The light bullets for these cals are short and stubby and spitzers add wieght fast. The spitzers are a lot more accurate at long range but you have to give up velocity. Any cal will do 95% of my deer shots. I'm not worried about those. I'm after something that will reach out and touch that big buck that walks out 200-300 yds in the clear. I have spent many years leaning on a 12g slug gun glassing the big buck that I had no chance of hitting let alone putting a kill shot on. Now that we have limited rifle I want to give one of those bucks a surprise. They been blowing me off for 50 years. My furthest shot to date was in WVa, 250yds with a 308/6x. The shot itself wasn't great but the opportunity to get that kind of shot is. Here in Ohio average shot in my area is under 100yds.
 

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I do have a 500 S&W revolver! :)

Enjoy shooting it. Never have hunted with it, but it's an awful lot of fun as a range toy.

Guy
Yeah---That is a great range toy. Lucky you got a modern version of a 500 where ammo and brass are commercially made. I have the old school 500 Linebaugh which never had commercially made ammo and brass until now. We had to make our shells from 348 Win brass which in itself is hard to find and we had to cast our own 480grn boolits in .511 diameter because none were made. All of us were very thankful that Starline started to make 500 Linebaugh brass. But we still have to cast our own .511 bullets because all the other 500's use a .500 diam. bullets.
 
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on my first trip to Africa, I fell in love with it and the people, at close to 76 now I don,t know I will make a seventh trip. we don,t know what tomorrow will bring, I would like to tho. and there I devolped a love for the cz 550 in .375 H&H
 

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