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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
UPDATE 3 (2/9/2015)
This is absurd. Got the 7600 back today, still has all the same issues. The only difference? They installed the single factory part that I had lost. It is just the assembly tube, which in a 7600 is nothing more than a glorified nut that holds the barrel to the receiver. Our gunsmith used a non factory nut. So they documented it as my only problem was that I could not assemble it correctly. And they're wanting me to pay $50. Before I sent it in, I was told that I would be contacted by a gunsmith who would explain his/her findings and let me know what my options were. That never happened.
I just got off the phone with another CS rep. I told them that the issues were not addressed. Apparently she doesn't have access to the records detailing exactly what the gunsmiths did. If I want to send it in again to have all the issues addressed, I have to go out and play detective all over again. I asked why the gunsmiths would not just look it over to make sure everything was in working order before they send them back. After all, they are supposed to know how their guns work. Apparently that's just not how it works. I need to waste time and money to confirm that they did not attempt to fix the issues even though I have an invoice saying as much. Then she said that it wasn't covered by their warranty. When I told them that it had been looked at by a Remington certified gunsmith within those two years, they found another reason that I had to pay for it: non factory part was installed. The fact that it was a lazy Remington certified gunsmith who installed it instead of ordering the correct part (which I expected him to charge me for) doesn't seem to matter.

The gunsmith made a brief note entailing everything that he did. "Remove non factory part and assembly firearm properly."
Am I the only one who finds this to be ridiculous?







Update 2: (1/2/2014)
It seems like they are making an honest effort to improve their customer service. They had me take a survey after the call.

On the phone, they were very helpful. Much better than I expected. It is being sent back to the factory rather than a repair center (a good sign). I was very surprised that I was not even asked about their two year policy, even when it was discovered that the gun was made in 2009 ( I bought it in 2012).

I am shipping it to them on my dime, they will ship it back on theirs. Seems fair enough. Not as nice as ruger's prepaid shipping label policy. If it is determined that it was defective from the factory, then they will either repair it or replace it at no charge. Hypothetically, if they thought it was me, then I would have to pay for it. The smiths will call be before they do anything and will tell me my options, which means a lot.

The initial contradicting responses was frustrating and gave me a bad feeling, but so far so good.


Summery (12/6):
-traded father's browning shotgun (probably shouldn't have, but did not have a purpose for a over and under, Dad valued utility)
-sold bad gun from dealer, taken advantaged of by seller (McBrides Gun shop in Austin Tx)
-circumstances are such that there is no telling what Remington will do

The next part, my original post, is very, very long. It is very similar to what I sent Remington. For that reason, I am going to leave it how it is. It is unorganized and detail oriented. I gave both them and y'all as much information as possible so that they understand what happened and so that y'all understand the significance of how Remington handles it
---------------------------

Update 1 (12/9): I got two contradicting responses from Remington this morning within minutes of each other.

First email: Insures the company will make it right

Mr. Kelly,We can certainly understand why you would be disappointed with your Remington Model 7600 if you are having the issues that you explained in your email.
We would appreciate the opportunity to service the firearm if you will allow us.
In order to better assist you, please give us a call at 1-800-243-9700, Monday through Friday, 9 a.m. - 5 p.m. (ET), with your serial number and we can set up a repair for it.
This would include sending your firearm back to our manufcaturing facility and having a Remington technician determine what would be necessary to put your Model 7600 in working condition.
Again, we regret that you are experiencing this issue with a Remington firearm. We look forward to hearing from you and assessing this problem. Thank you for contacting Remington.


Second (15 minutes later): Cites policy of Remington's obligation to produce a functional product expires after two years

Hello sir, thank you for contacting Remington arms. We have a 2 year warranty as seen in the back of our owners manual. Have you contacted us on this matter before? We need some record of your maulfunction to base a warranty repair on. We do not offer replacement until a repair by our gunsmiths has been attempted. If you have any other question please feel free to ask. Have a nice day!

I am going to go ahead and talk to someone from corporate to see which statement they will stand by. I did not see this coming.


---------------


Story:
A few years ago when I was fifteen (I am now 18, I decided to sell my late father's Browning over and under shotgun to buy a hunting rifle I would actually use. He never used the Browning, so I did not feel too worried about my decision at the time. He would have wanted me to get a gun I could use and pass on to my future children. After reading about them online, I decided on a Remington 7600 in .270. I went to McBride's gun shop in Austin, Tx and traded it for the rifle and a good scope. When I got home, I noticed that something was not right. It was abnormally difficult to load AND to eject rounds. (Two separate issues.) The ejected rounds had deep scratch marks in the brass. So I took it back into McBrides. I was small in stature at the time, and I could tell they weren't taking me seriously. The gunsmith even wanted to charge me for the his time (after the company had sold me a broken gun.) He was incredibly rude. He carelessly dropped my rifle on the glass counter from a few inches off the table when I handed it to him. Not a huge deal, but still. He looked annoyed when he said he'd look at it.
They call me a few weeks later. I come in, and he tells me the mag was bent from the factory so they "fixed" it. (Upon inspection I saw that the mag looked even more deformed than when I had brought it to them.) He said there was nothing else wrong with it. He said that you just have to use force. (Basically calling me weak and ignorant.) I then took it to the range. It was a little easier to load, but the slide was still really difficult to work. Apparently at McBrides the phrases "fixed" and "I don't feel like doing my job" are interchangeable. On youtube I saw that it should have been as effortless as cycling an 870. On mine, if you went too slow, it would completely lock up. It was especially difficult to get the brass out of the chamber. And on the ejected brass, the neck of the spent round was deformed, indicating that the chamber was in some way deformed. But if you got one in the chamber and pulled the trigger, it went off, which is apparently good enough for McBrides. I went home and put the gun away. I was pretty upset and I didn't want to think about it.
About a year later, I decided I would try to fix it. I am pretty mechanically inclined, so I decided I would try to figure it out myself. Plus, I didn't have any more money to get the gun worked on. I took it apart and couldn't find any problem other than the mag (which could only explain the difficulty chambering rounds.) I read all there was to read, watched disassembly videos pausing it to see each part. Nothing. Until I found that there was a broken piece on the inside from the force it took to pull the round out of the chamber. Not only was the gun broken, but just using it was doing further damage to the internals. Disgusted, I left it disassembled in the case and put it in the closet to collect dust.
Six months later, my grandfather decided to have half a dozen guns worked on by a reputable gunsmith in college station and offered to take the 7600. I said why the hell not. He tells me a few weeks later that the gunsmith couldn't find the action bar assembly (which secures the barrel to the receiver similar to the bolts on a 10/22 and also looks like the mag tube on an 870.) Or the mag (which was junk anyway.) I assumed he'd order one and I would pay my grandfather the 50 dollars back later. We had moved, so the parts were long gone It was a stupid assumption. He had to use a nut. So now the gun looks horrible. I used a friend's mag, and it's still broken.
Last night, I decided to try once more to make this right, so I contacted Remington's customer service. Here is the entire situation in full detail so you can decide for yourself the significance of their response (that has yet to come, but I will report back soon.) Why I hadn't contacted them sooner, I don't know. Maybe because I wasn't 18 and I didn't want my mom involved for some reason. Maybe I was upset and wasn't thinking clearly. Their warranty states that if it was looked at by a legit gunsmith within two years of purchase, it is still under warranty. So I emailed them and told them my entire story. I explained its significance to me as I traded my late father's prized shotgun for it. I explained that I didn't want to regret that decision when I wouldn't be able to pass on a family firearm to my future descendants. I also explained that by explaining in so much detail to them that I was exposing myself to even more disappointment, making the potential regret substantially more painful. I said quite clearly that I didn't sell my Dad's shotgun to get a rifle. I sold it to get a 7600 in good working order. The chamber is obviously ruined and the action is rough. If they remove metal to get it to where it is acceptable (functional), it will not be factory spec. I want what I bought, which is a 7600 that is made right from the factory, not one that is fixed. If you buy a new car off the lot, you aren't buying one that has had body work done to it. I am well aware that if it works, that is good enough in terms of functionality. But a repaired rifle will have no sentimental value. So I politely requested that either they replace it entirely so I do not feel like I made a mistake, or that they send me the rifle back just as broken as when they received it. At least then I will have something to show for this memory when I pass on my modest (?) collection to my children someday. I am not a jaded guy. I want to like Remington. I want to trust that the rifle just somehow happened to slip out the door. But, in my mind, how they handle this will reflect the true values of the company. I value integrity, and if they do not make this right, I will feel morally obligated to try to spare someone the experience I will have had. If my telling of this story prevents a single person from disappointment with who they chose to give their business to, then I will have done the right thing by sharing this story. So far, Mcbride's is the only company that has demonstrated a lack of character. They bullied a kid into accepting a broken rifle. One that was traded for my late father's like new, beautiful, flawless Browning Lightning. If that isn't the definition of greed, I do not know what is. Now Remington is up, and my faith in them will either be made or broken by the coming weeks. Asking for a new rifle is a lot to ask, but I gave them the alternative of doing nothing at all. I explained it as well to them, if not better, than I have to y'all, so that they understand the significance of their decision. If they do replace it, it will be a shining example of integrity that I will do my best to promote within the firearms community. They will have deserved the credit I hope to give to them.

I will keep y'all updated on how this plays out. I hope I will have some good news for y'all soon.
Zach
 

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Hey Zach,
Sorry to hear this.
Where are the remains/the original parts of the gun now? And what did Rem customer service say to you?
 

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zkelly:

Too much information that is not really important. I suggest that you eliminate all the "feelings" related stuff and separate paragraphs with double line spacing so its easier to read.

No, I am not the English Comp Police, but there is way too much there for some of us with "older eyes". :)


Mike T.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I have yet to get a response from them. It has only been 24 hours though. (I contacted them on December fifth.)
If they do not get back to me in the next few days, I will go ahead and call. I do not want to come across as unreasonable, nor do I wish to annoy an employee. The ball is in their court, I just have to be patient.
 

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You are a young man so your lack of experience at the beginning of your REM 7600 story was the beginning of your problems. You were taken advantage of by an unscrupulous dealer when you traded in your father's Browning. It is too bad you did not value the Browning more since it was your fathers - what better gun to hand down to your children than their grandfathers gun? What I do hope you get out of this experience is: IF YOU GET ANY OF THOSE "HALF DOZEN GINS" YOUR GRANDFATHER HAS THINK CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU GET RID OF THEM - AND AT LEAST GET MORE THAN ONE OPINION FROM DEALERS OR OTHER GUN OWNERS BEFORE YOU DO SELL THEM....

Also read your posts over and try to say what you want to say in as few words as possible... That is one of the longest posts I have ever seen in any forum . .

Good luck,

GB45
 

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My question was
Where are the parts to the gun now and what did they say to you when you spoke with customer service?


I agree with GB45. We're not being insensitive, but chalk this one up to a learning experience. Unfortunately the Superposed is gone. :ahhhhh:But maybe you can save the ones your grandfather has. Family guns have value beyond their bluebook.
 

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I have yet to get a response from them. It has only been 24 hours though. (I contacted them on December fifth.)
If they do not get back to me in the next few days, I will go ahead and call. I do not want to come across as unreasonable, nor do I wish to annoy an employee. The ball is in their court, I just have to be patient.
You are also being super impatient in expecting a business to respond to you in 24 hours. These things may take weeks to get a proper response - Customer Service does not make these decisions - they have Manufacturing Engineers or Gun Technicians who have to make a decision BASED ON COMPANY POLICY ALREADY SET BY THE HIGHER MANAGEMENT.

In addition equating your purchase of a new $500 gun to a new automobile valued at $20K and up is very unrealistic. How does a company that sells a $500 LAPTOP handle replacements? - that is more realistic....You certainly will not get a brand new car exchanged on the spot. It takes years of bad problems, service visits, and LEMON LAWS to get a brand new car replaced.

Again your inexperience is showing here....and I am not blaming you for the inexperience - we learn as we grow up - I am 69 years old and can tell you I have been "HAD" more than once in all my years .........

GB45
 

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Too long of a post and I did not read it, but regarding your second post. Remington will take at least 16 or more days to respond to anything. Their customer service is the worst I’ve ever dealt with. They had my gun for over 8 months due to lack of parts and stupid lame excuses. I got the gun back a week ago and will be making a long post about my experience one of these days, but for now, I just need a break from it. You are going to need a lot of patients if you are going to deal with Remington CS. To me, Remington is a 4 letter word.

By the way. The people that read the electronic correspondence and the people that answer the phones might as well be in two different countries. If you call tomorrow, you will still get a response to the electronic communication with them in a couple of weeks as if you never called. The right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing at Remington.
 

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Some of y'all just can not help but be a jackass. This young man is just that , an 18 year old man. He is going to make mistakes, just like you and I have done. He needs to be encouraged, not lectured. Young man, I hope this works out well for you. I will close now for I do not want to be accused of posting too long a response. Plus, as a 71 year old man, I need to go to bed, and could care less about seeing the responses of critical people.
 

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I hope you get a positive response soon,
best of luck to you
 
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zkelly,

Best of luck in dealing with Remington. I know there are a lot of horror stories out there about their service and I can empathize with those that have spent their hard earned dollars for non-functioning or out-right dangerous firearms. My personal experience with their service was pretty good. As I recall, it was about a three week turn around on a barrel replacement at no charge (bad barrel from the factory). I hope yours is the same, but you may have a more difficult time if the rifle is missing parts and has had careless "repairs" made by McBrides.

More importantly, I wouldn't worry too much about trading your dad's Browning. As you stated, he never used it and would have wanted you to have a rifle that you and your kids would enjoy together one day. I'm a sentimental guy, you couldn't buy my dad's Zippo lighter from me, but I have have five kids and I wouldn't want them to keep something of mine for pure sentimental reasons if they could use it to get something they would enjoy more and pass along. Only you and your dad know the understanding you had.

You sound like a man with a strong sense of right. I'm sure your dad would be proud.

As I said, good luck and let us know how it turns out.

-Keith
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Where are the parts to the gun now and what did they say to you when you spoke with customer service?

I did not speak to customer service on the phone. I chose to email them so that there were no misunderstandings. I wanted to inform them fully of the situation so that they could make an educated decision.

Maybe it is because I am still young, but I would make the same decision again (to buy a deer rifle I could use.) If I had a memory of being with him when he shot it, it would be different. He liked it (who wouldn't, it was gorgeous,) but I never got the indication that it meant anything special to him. I think he would have advocated my trading it for a nice deer rifle. That being said, I would never sell a family gun just for its value in cash. The conversion of money into guns is a one way street as far as I see it. Someday I'll have a designated "category" of guns that I will own for a while then trade off. But that will be my collection, not the family collection
 

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Discussion Starter #16
"You are also being super impatient in expecting a business to respond to you in 24 hours. These things may take weeks to get a proper response"

I am simply reporting my experience as it happens. Someone asked if I had gotten a response yet. And there is a difference between a "proper response" (I assume you mean a productive, business oriented response), and a personal acknowledgment. My grandfather's ruger once had to go off to customer service, and he told me that he felt very attended-to by customer service reps. Them keeping him informed showed good... well, customer service. The measures the company takes to make their customers feel attended-to says something about the company (I think we can all agree on that.) I am aware of my own ignorance when it comes to my lack of experience with customer service reps. That is why I am objectively sharing my experience so that others can make up their own minds about Remington instead of just waiting until after the fact and complaining (or saying good things) about the company.

About the car example, my point was that if you buy a new car, you expect it to be "new." I bought a brand new gun, so I requested that I was given a new gun. Is that the most reasonable thing in the world? I don't know, but that is what I asked
 

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I see your last post was a couple of days ago, but like I said in my last post, the Remington right hand has no idea what the Remington left hand is doing. You have probably already called them and have progressed some from your last post, but if not, I would ignore that second response from Remington. You have a new gun. The first response from them was the proper response. They will give you an SRN number (Service Request Number) and an address to return it to. Do not loose your SRN number, as you will need it for any future correspondence with Remington on this matter. Be sure to ask them for a shipping label. They did not offer one to me, so I had to ship it back on my dime. You should not have to do that. Let’s hope your turnaround time is the 3 to 4 weeks that it should be, not the several months many of us have had to go thru.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Haven't heard back from them yet. I've been caught up with school.
I emailed them back, same (and only) address ([email protected]), hoping to be attended to by a different employee who would see to it that my situation was promptly attended to. They have yet to respond.

I'll call them when I get the chance here in the next few days and report back when I have news.
 

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Next time, buy a Henry Rifle.



Mike T.
 
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