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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
While I have reloaded various pistol calibers as well as 30-06 and 25-06 ammo in the past, for the first time, I will be loading for my 45-70 1895GS and need some advice and recommended load data. Here is what I have:

New Starline Brass
Rem 405 gr. SP Bullets
CCI 200 LR Primers
Hercules Reloader 7 Powder (the predecessor to the Alliant R7 powder).

I'll be using Lee dies and a Lee factory crimp die in my Rockchucker single stage press.

Besides recommended load data, what is the overall cartridge length I should be aiming for and where do I seat this bullet? At the end cannelure? It would seem to be too long if I do that, however, I do plan on making a dummy round just to make sure it cycles right.

Is the Hercules R7 different than the Alliant R7? Load data interchangeable? I'd like to use up what I have if I can.

Is there anything else I should be aware of or any helpful tips on loading this round?
 

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Overall length cannot exceed 2.550 to 2.570." This means you will be using the cannelure closest to the nose of the bullet to stay within this OAL.

Hercules Reloder 7 was made in the US; the newer stuff is made in Sweden. Loading data is similar but probably not exactly interchangeable, although the load data sources make no mention of this, nor of the manufacturing change. The intent, I believe, was to get the replacement powder as close as possible to the original, but use caution on the upper end of loading data, especially that dated compared to more recent info.

Flare just enough to admit the heel of the bullet and no more. Excessive flaring is not considered proper procedure.

There are essentially two levels to loading the 45-70:

1) Not painful

2) Painful

Try to stay at the milder levels first. However, if using a jacketed bullet, they must not be going so slow that they do not expand, unless no expansion should be what you want. Generally, this is 1600 fps and above for most 100 yard and closer shooting. The down side is that 1600 fps and above is the "painful" level.

For milder loads look into some cast bullets. They're lots cheaper and you're not paying for the expansion if expansion is not needed, and oftentimes it is not. .459" is good, .460 to .461" is better in reference to diameter of the cast bullet. Don't try to overdrive a plainbase bullet. This should be restricted to the milder velocities and pressures for best results.
 

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If you have less than a pound of the old Reloader 7 I would buy a new batch, they are not interchangeble in high end loads facts say dangerous.

When loading for the 45-70 do go to the case capacities of various brass I've posted, just click the link. Lot of difference in capacities and using data for another brand of brass could get you in trouble. Figure if your brass is say 2.7 grains less than the posted brass lower your starting loads by that much and consider the to end to be that much lower also.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,28447.0.html
 

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jpcortese said:
Is the Hercules R7 different than the Alliant R7? Load data interchangeable?
Everything Ive been told and read, it is the same formula. To double check, call/e-mail Alliant.

dont forget to bell your cases.

I only use R7 in my 45-70.

My load is 400gr speer FN, 45gr R-7, CCI 250 magnum primers, different brass. Pukes them out at 1730fps.
They are stout, but not bad. My cast load is 5grs lighter and works great too.
I also use a .030 veggie wad a a bit of dacron filler to hold the powder in place.
A left over from also loading black powder
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I sent an email to Alliant asking them if the Hercules Reloder 7 and the Alliant Reloder 7 powders are interchangeable, and if not, how would I modify the load data. Here is the response I got this morning:

"These powders are made to the same spec. We do recommend using Alliant RL 7 data.

Thanks for your note and have a nice day.

Ben Amonette
Consumer Service Manager
Alliant Powder Company"


So based on this, it would appear that they are the same. Does anyone have any favorite load data using the brass, bullets and primers I mentioned in my first post?
 

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35remington said:
Overall length cannot exceed 2.550 to 2.570." This means you will be using the cannelure closest to the nose of the bullet to stay within this OAL.

Hercules Reloder 7 was made in the US; the newer stuff is made in Sweden. Loading data is similar but probably not exactly interchangeable, although the load data sources make no mention of this, nor of the manufacturing change. The intent, I believe, was to get the replacement powder as close as possible to the original, but use caution on the upper end of loading data, especially that dated compared to more recent info.

Flare just enough to admit the heel of the bullet and no more. Excessive flaring is not considered proper procedure.

There are essentially two levels to loading the 45-70:

1) Not painful

2) Painful

Try to stay at the milder levels first. However, if using a jacketed bullet, they must not be going so slow that they do not expand, unless no expansion should be what you want. Generally, this is 1600 fps and above for most 100 yard and closer shooting. The down side is that 1600 fps and above is the "painful" level.

For milder loads look into some cast bullets. They're lots cheaper and you're not paying for the expansion if expansion is not needed, and oftentimes it is not. .459" is good, .460 to .461" is better in reference to diameter of the cast bullet. Don't try to overdrive a plainbase bullet. This should be restricted to the milder velocities and pressures for best results.


Not trying to hijack your thread JP, but I think you are about to run into this problem too.

I am loading the rem 405 and using the cannelure closest to the nose getting an OAL length of 2.7" (yes I trimmed my brass). I don't think you can get the correct OAL unless you seat these past the cannelure. If you do that, you can't crimp them for use in a tubular magazine.

I have not tried to cycle or chamber them in my lever actions as I am scared to get one stuck somewhere. They shoot fine in my handi rifle, so I think I 'm going to find another bullet or buy a mold for my guide gun.

Someone please chime in if I'm missing something here. I don't want to lead anyone astray or give bad information.
 

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OK, I couldn't stand it and tried to cycle my over length bullets through my 1895. Of course, they would not work and it was a PITA to get it out ( I only tried 1).

Once again, I may be missing something obvious, but if you seat rem 405s to the cannelure they exceed OAL and will not cycle in leverguns.

I am going to get a mold and start molding for mine.
 

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Gentlemen, my bad. I was thinking of the Speer bullet when I mentioned seating it to the upper cannelure; the Remington bullet doesn't have one in the proper location for a crimp, just as you mentioned. My punishment for reading too hastily.

In that case you're going to have to either rely on a compressed load of powder to support the bullet or place a crimp with the LFCD above the existing cannelure to help support the bullet. A compressed load of Reloder 7 is not possible in many cases, depending upon the load used. The Remington bullet is not unusable, it just requires a change in your approach to loading it.

The reason for the caution about Reloder 7 is that data varies substantially. Load published by Alliant are unlikely to get you into any trouble as they don't go high enough for any lot variations between old RL7 and new RL7 to matter, so I would have said the same things as the Alliant rep on the phone as well. However, data for up to 52 grains of Reloder 7 has been published for well over 2000 fps in a 22 inch barrel using a 405 grain bullet, and some of it was old data and some of it was new, depending upon, for example, whether Layne Simpson published it or Brian Pearce.

Seating depth also matters, as does bullet. A 405 at 2000+ fps in a 7.5 pound rifle is not all that much fun anyway. Point being, approach the upper end loads carefully if you find them in disparate sources that vary per vintage. You're not going to blow up the rifle, likely, but loads of this sort are all the action should be taking due to the large case head interior diameter of the 45-70 case. Such loads are harder on the action than those run to the same pressure in 30-30 or 35 Remington cases, and the amount your cases stretch per firing is a big hint in how warm the loads are as they cause more bolt springing and case head stretch.
 

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Thanks for the info. You confirmed my findings, but I am new to reloading and thought maybe I was missing something obvious.

I will be moving to another bullet for the guide gun, but am lucky enough to have a Handi Rifle that loves the rem 405s at 2.7".
 

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your rem 405's are fine. just roll crimp over the edge forward of the cannelures. piece of cake.
 
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