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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I stumbled across some monster looking bullets for the 45 70 and couldnt find any load info for anything much over 400-500gn. The ones I have found are 535gn Lead Round nose hard cast..... I wanted to do some penetration boasting to a mate of mine who wont shut up about his .308 killing everything better than my "slow poke 45 70" including some biggish tree stumps .... so i have loaded up some of these thumb sized monsters behind 43grains of AR 2207.... but i am now starting to wonder if i was being a bit too generous with the powder .... I think I may use the Ruger #1 just to be sure .... but if anyone out there has gone for the heavy bullets can you let me know if these should do the trick ?? I reckon they should get them 535gn tree slayers going at around 1500fps .... ?? What do ya reckon ??
Maybe I should let HIM do the shootin .... 8)
 

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Dont know about the load but be sure to post pics of that Boone&Crockett stump when you get done with it.
 

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AR2207 is known as H4198 on this side of the pond...thats about all the "certified" useful info I have on the subject.

Uncertified...you need a tad slower powder (H322 or similar)...I think...I've never shot anything bigger than 425 grains though.
 

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I make and shoot 540 FN. Packem with 35gr R-7
They do around 1400ish
 

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Leverlad,
I agree with Ridgerunner, something slower like H322 (it is ADI 2219) is more suitable.
I have tried 40grs of AR2219 with 550gr Craters and it seems to be the sweet spot. BUT start at about 36-37grs and then work up and watch for pressure signs. It's ok in my gun but you have to be careful.
I have also tried CBE (Cast Bullet Engineering) 570gr a friend cast (very hard) and I like it with about 38grs AR2219 but again start lower and work up. I really like the heavy weights but remember they are very punishing on both ends. I am bit of a weaky so I use a Past magnum plus recoil shield. I have back problems and no it's not from shooting rediculously heavy loads.
Hope this helps but please show responsibility when going higher in the loads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well, I was having some seating difficulties with the long bullets using the 43gr load anyway and after doing some research I pulled the bullets and dropped the charges to 40gr which seems to be within spec and allows for the bullets to be seated deep enough.... I still think the limbsaver on the #1 will be working overtime .... ;D
 
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I shoot a 500gn FN paper patched bullet out of my 1895CB and it is at 1420FPS and I use a load of IMR3031 recoil is not that bad and it is at the bottom of suggested starting loads. I also shoot a 420gr cast bullet that I have shot both plain and PP that penetrates very well and travel faster. The picture is of one that went through a big tree and the slug was just inside the bark on the far side. It retained most of it's weight after the shot, somewhere around 314.4 grains.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
foxtrapper said:
Why the extra heavies? They beat you and your gun up for..........
Cos the heavy bullets penetrate further than light ones ... and I need them to go through a large tree to save face ...! ;)
 
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Yeah,
The limbsaver sure will be working overtime. The reason I use the Past is really me being a bit selfish, If some one else uses the rifle with heavy loads they will only shoot it once and not ask for a shot again. :D
As I said earlier the 40gr AR 2219 load is the sweet spot for those huge bullets.
 

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leverlad said:
Cos the heavy bullets penetrate further than light ones ... and I need them to go through a large tree to save face ...! ;)
If you want the most "tree penetration" then keep the velocity low enough that the bullet doesn't deform or shatter. I was shocked last year when I had some hard cast 405gr loads using Trail Boss go through a big log behind my target. Either 16" or 18" diameter IIRC.

Chris.
 

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G'day leverlad.
I went on the heavy bullet crusade more than six months ago. I wanted to duplicate Garrets 540gn Hammer head ammo to take a few Water Buffalo in the Northern Territory on a mate’s 20 million acre Arnhemland hunting concession. He's doubtful of the ability of a 45/70 to take a proper floodplain grown bull. So with that I made it a mission to show him it can be done effectively with a "cowboy gun" as he calls it and with cast bullets to boot.
I had a custom mold made by Mountain Molds that has an 80% meplat and comes out at 550gns with gas check. I tried to make it similar to Garrets but with the proviso that it would work through a Marlin with microgroove rifling without accuracy/tumbling problems.
Here's my version



After nearly 3 months of internet research I came up with a load that is safe in a Marlin.
To duplicate Garrets 1550 fps I use 44.5gns of AR2206H with the 550gn
My max load is 47gns AR2206H for 1640fps. This is a max load because it completely fills the case and is already compressed.
There maybe some more to be gained from using Benchmark 2 but I haven't gone this route because the recoil from my max load is already quite substantial!!
I believe AR2206H is the same as H4895 which is made here in Oz.
This I can assure you will satisfy your penetration/power requirements once you fire one!
Regards
Brett
 

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leverlad said:
Cos the heavy bullets penetrate further than light ones ... and I need them to go through a large tree to save face ...! ;)
I really don't understand the competition between a 45-70 and a .308. These are probably my 2 favorite calibers and I don't see them really in competition with each other. Each have their purpose in ones arsenal of weapons and both will kill very effectively. Now if you are trying to measure the size of a hole it will put in a tree then the 45-70 is .458 and the .308 is .308. It is a shame that so many good trees must give their life to prove a point that really isn't a point at all. :) ::)
 

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rhendrix said:
I really don't understand the competition between a 45-70 and a .308. These are probably my 2 favorite calibers and I don't see them really in competition with each other. Each have their purpose in ones arsenal of weapons and both will kill very effectively. Now if you are trying to measure the size of a hole it will put in a tree then the 45-70 is .458 and the .308 is .308. It is a shame that so many good trees must give their life to prove a point that really isn't a point at all. :) ::)
In defense of myself that tree was in the way. ;D ;D Actually I was on a friends ranch and he wanted to see what my 45-70 would do, and needless to say he was impressed. ;) ;D
 

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janott said:
In defense of myself that tree was in the way. ;D ;D Actually I was on a friends ranch and he wanted to see what my 45-70 would do, and needless to say he was impressed. ;) ;D
As well he should have been impressed. The 45-70 is an impressive round and they are just plain fun to shoot. I love them for what they can do and I love the .308 because of what it can do with consistancy.
 

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rhendrix said:
As well he should have been impressed. The 45-70 is an impressive round and they are just plain fun to shoot. I love them for what they can do and I love the .308 because of what it can do with consistancy.
The 308 much like the 30-30 is way under estimated, and now that I think of it so is the 45-70, the proper load combination in any one of the three with a good bullet and the nut behind the wheel to shoot it ;D will drop any Animal in North America.
 

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Here in Alaska, I'm debating whether the pile driver jr. is heavy enough or should I go for the oringinal pile driver. Any opinions? I'm not shy of recoil.
 

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If in doubt go HEAVY. (even if you don't need it).
 

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Well said Ron!! Why you boys wanna load up all those great big slow bullets?? Don't mean to pull anyones chain, but I never understand this big bullet thing in an age when we have very capable lower weight rounds ???
But, if it blows your skirt up then what the heck ::) ::)
 

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I have shot plenty of big game with a lot of different rifles and from what I have found the larger the bullet for the rifle the better performance up close and down range.
 
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