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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A while back I started working up loads for my 1971 Marlin 336 in .35 Remington. The load that shoots the best so far is a Sierra 200gr Pro Hunter over 34.0gr of H335 and a Federal Large Rifle primer. Today I was out with my Chronograph and decided to run this load over it and see how consistent it is. What I discovered is that this load is not consistent at all. A 10 round string gave me a High Velocity of 1949, a Low Velocity of 1709 and an extreme spread of 240. Average velocity was 1816fps. Every charge was weighed when the load was developed. My question is what is causing this inconsistency? I almost think I should switch to a magnum primer but thought I'd get some other opinions before I ran out and bought 1000 large magnum primers. So what say you, do my inconsistencies point toward the fact that I'm not using a magnum primer with the H335 or am I missing something?

Stu
 

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Mostly due to a partially filled case. The load is, quite frankly, rather light and well below SAAMI spec. Powder may be forward or rearward or strung along the case. Given that the 35 Remington has relatively small charges of powder, and also given you are not shooting in quite cold weather the primer is of no particular consequence in producing large velocity spreads. The partially filled case is the cause of your great velocity variation.

Next time try positioning the powder near the primer by tipping the barrel up before each shot, and see what the velocity spread looks like then. Higher velocities occur with the powder near the primer, lower with powder near the bullet.

Better yet, forgo the low velocities and try 39.0 grains for full power and lower extreme spreads. If accuracy is a little less it does not matter for any deer hunting you will do, and the higher velocity promotes better bullet effect on target. You are running H335, pressurewise, below its intended operating range as well. The 35's upper end SAAMI spec as to pressure (a rather low 33,500 psi) is reasonably close to a sort of minimum in operating H335.....and you're well below that.

Do not evaluate accuracy with a hot barrel. Fire three shots and let the barrel cool completely before trying for another group. Group shooting with a hot barrel only tells you the load will go bang and nothing else. An otherwise accurate load will group poorly from a hot barreled levergun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Mostly due to a partially filled case. The load is, quite frankly, rather light and well below SAAMI spec. Powder may be forward or rearward or strung along the case. Given that the 35 Remington has relatively small charges of powder, and also given you are not shooting in quite cold weather the primer is of no particular consequence in producing large velocity spreads. The partially filled case is the cause of your great velocity variation.

Next time try positioning the powder near the primer by tipping the barrel up before each shot, and see what the velocity spread looks like then. Higher velocities occur with the powder near the primer, lower with powder near the bullet.

Better yet, forgo the low velocities and try 39.0 grains for full power and lower extreme spreads. If accuracy is a little less it does not matter for any deer hunting you will do, and the higher velocity promotes better bullet effect on target. You are running H335, pressurewise, below its intended operating range as well. The 35's upper end SAAMI spec as to pressure (a rather low 33,500 psi) is reasonably close to a sort of minimum in operating H335.....and you're well below that.

Do not evaluate accuracy with a hot barrel. Fire three shots and let the barrel cool completely before trying for another group. Group shooting with a hot barrel only tells you the load will go bang and nothing else. An otherwise accurate load will group poorly from a hot barreled levergun.
Yeah I knew it was a little on the light side Hodgdon's web site says start with 33gr and max is 37gr so that's where I got my data from. The load shoots well, when I was working up loads it put 5 shots into 1" at 50yds but that velocity variation bothers me. Makes me wonder how it would perform during deer season when it's about 0 degrees out there. Guess I'll have to go back to the loading bench and see what else I can come up with that shoots well. I will say that when I got to the upper end of Hodgdon's data I saw no signs of pressure so I wouldn't worry too much about going over it a bit. By the way your explanation makes perfect sense and is probably the best explanation I've ever gotten on any of the forums I've been on. Thanks for the help

Stu
 

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The data listed in the past for 39.0 grains H335 came from......Hodgdon. Look in their 25th edition. I've been using that load for years with no issues.

I wouldn't be too terribly enthused about using 34 grains H335 in cold weather. Pressure is low on warm days, and lower on cold ones. Since H335 is more temperature sensitive than other powders in the Hodgdon line (Hodgdon claims this insensitivity for their "Extreme" Powders) underloading H335 on 0 degree days is most assuredly to be avoided.

Go up to 39 grains. Velocity should be in the 2080-2130 fps ranges depending upon that temperature in a 20 inch barrel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm not sure I have the 25th addition of hodgdon's manual but I know I have some older Lyman and Speer manuals out in my shop, I'll check those out. I guess I just learned a lesson about pulling data from Hodgdon's web site. Seems like they must have lowered their starting and max charge weights to try to avoid any legal hassles. Thanks again for the information, I appreciate it.

Stu
 

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H-335 is one of the powders that does real well in my .35 Remington. Here is a link to a thread I started a while back that generated some great info and insight from folks like 35remington and Halwg. This might give you some more info on H-335 and maybe some info you don't need or want, but at least it's there.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloading/42656-more-35-remington-loads.html

Anyhow, if 35remington chimes in on a particular subject, you can pretty well take it to the bank...
 

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I guess I just learned a lesson about pulling data from Hodgdon's web site. Seems like they must have lowered their starting and max charge weights to try to avoid any legal hassles.
Actually they transitioned to modern pressure transducers, and found some of their data was in error. It has nothing to do with legal considerations.

I find most .35 Remington loads to be lousy for accurate at the low end, and several great powders are terrible at the starting level. As a M336 of Post WWII manufacture will easily digest loads well above those listed for safety in early designs, I never waste materials working up from a minimum level. Where to start takes some experience with the bullets and powders, but even max loads will not stress your Marlin.

This months Handloader Magazine has a recipe (Brian Pearce), for 40Kpsi levels that add 200fps to the top end loads listed in most manuals.
 

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2014-04-21_19-00-56_530.jpg 15 shots 39grs h335 55yds. One flyer.. I was excited .. I love this powder. Picked up 8lbs last weekend..:marchmellow:
 

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"This months Handloader Magazine has a recipe (Brian Pearce), for 40Kpsi levels that add 200fps to the top end loads listed in most manuals."

We've been preaching that lesson here for some years now, haven't we?

CWT, with powder panic being the way it is, you're lucky you can pick up 8 lbs. of anything! Care to tell us how much you paid?
 

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Along with everything 35remington posted above, one thing I like to make sure of the consistency of my crimps. I trim all fired brass to the same length and use my Lee Factory Crimp die. Checking my records, normal extreme spreads run 15 to 20 fps. I have one record using RL-7 where the ES was 2fps. I remember calling Mr. Harry Pascoe at the old Hercules plant in Kenville, NJ to tell him about that experience. We talked over a half hour and I found out his favorite cartridge was the 358 Win also. I was invited down to tour the facility but never got down there and they were bought out and moved. Another one of my life's little regrets.

358 Win
 
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"This months Handloader Magazine has a recipe (Brian Pearce), for 40Kpsi levels that add 200fps to the top end loads listed in most manuals."

We've been preaching that lesson here for some years now, haven't we?

CWT, with powder panic being the way it is, you're lucky you can pick up 8 lbs. of anything! Care to tell us how much you paid?
35rem ...I gave $184 at a gun show last weekend for the 8lb keg of h335. I also picked up two 1lbs cans in imr4064 for $24 each out the door. The guy had 8lbs of imr4064 for $160.. out the door. I was out of funding and couldnt get the 8lb 4064. I had to go home and break it the big boss. :ahhhhh: Theres gun show in June. I'm going to check it out as well. Prices did really vary from one end of the building to the other.. sometimes as much as $50 on 8 lb kegs.. When I saw that h335 I had to have it.. I was weak .. I just couldnt help it :biggrin: ..Honestly I was suprised in the powders I did see. Not much pistol powder...No h110 or lilgun. I was looking mostly for 35 rem brass.. None in the whole building and I was there at opening..
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
35rem ...I gave $184 at a gun show last weekend for the 8lb keg of h335. I also picked up two 1lbs cans in imr4064 for $24 each out the door. The guy had 8lbs of imr4064 for $160.. out the door. I was out of funding and couldnt get the 8lb 4064. I had to go home and break it the big boss. :ahhhhh: Theres gun show in June. I'm going to check it out as well. Prices did really vary from one end of the building to the other.. sometimes as much as $50 on 8 lb kegs.. When I saw that h335 I had to have it.. I was weak .. I just couldnt help it :biggrin: ..Honestly I was suprised in the powders I did see. Not much pistol powder...No h110 or lilgun. I was looking mostly for 35 rem brass.. None in the whole building and I was there at opening..
I picked up some IMR4064 locally for $39.99, needed it to work up some loads for my Garand and the guy is the only game in town unless I want to drive an hour or so. He had me over a barrel so I had to pay it. I managed to luck into some H335 in 1lb bottles last year from powder valley. I think I got the last 6lbs they had and I had to wait 4 months to get it but I did eventually get it. That's why I started working up these loads in the first place I have more H335 than anything else.

Stu
 
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