[DDS444]

Hey Roe, I was just curious if you have checked out the new E series 1911's from Smith & Wesson, and if you have I was curious as to what you think of them? Thanks!

 

[Barenjager]

I have not handled one personally yet...none of the enhanced models have shown up in my local shops to date. I have read quite a bit about them and they incorporate a lot of the features only available previously in models from the Performance Center. From what I've been able to determine they differ from the "standard" S&W1911 line by the following...

Ambidexterous thumb safety.
The larger Performance Center extractor.
A precision fit trigger to eliminate some complaints of loose triggers in earlier models.
A recessed and chamfered barrel.
Checkered front strap, mainspring housing, and rear of slide.
Either white dot sights or tritium night sights, depending on model.
Fish scale slide serrations and the matching scale grips.

Other than the fish scale serrations (give me plain old angled serrations, thank you), all the other enhancments are nice upgrades. Smith & Wesson has been producing some very fine 1911's and I see no reason to think these won't live up to the high standards they've been able to achieve.

The 5" S&W 1911PD that has become my "sock drawer" gun, has been 100% reliable from the very first magazine and has proven to be nicely accurate. In fact, other than the full custom limited gun I had built for IPSC competition, it's the only 1911 I have that's needed nothing in the way of tuning or enhancements to make it work properly. It remains factory stock, with only the addition of an Insight Tech M6 and a set of Ahrend's ebony grips.

Roe

 

[DDS444]

Thanks for the info Roe. I plan on checking one out here soon, though it will only make me wish I had the money since I have hit my budget on firearms this year already. I really like the idea of the up grades along with the drop in price of the basic model. I noticed the msrp of the previous generation almost around $1100 while the entry level E series is msrp @ just over 800. Maybe it will make it easier for me to acquire one. ;D

 

[Charlie98]

Roe, I have a question for you...

I noticed your SW has an external extractor... Kimber tried the external extractor some years ago with poor success, do you see any limitations with that design? To be honest, I don't know what the deal is, except being external it may be vulnerable, but I doubt this. My Kimber has the standard internal extractor design. The HiPower, for one, has (was designed with) the external, I never had problem one with mine.

With Kimber's QC in question, I'm looking for a good, full-sized railed 1911... just like that!

 

[miatakix]

Not Roe, here, but FWIW I read a recent article about that new E-Series and they mentioned the external extractor. According to them, the success or failure of an external extractor 1911 has more to do with the manufacturer's experience and know-how with external extractors, and S&W has extensive experience, here. They said it was as good as any.

Makes sense to me, think about it...Sig Sauer, M&P, Glock, H&K, Ruger, FN (including Hi Powers), etc., etc. all have external extractors. The Hi Power design originally called for an internal extractor but was changed to external fairly early on.

I don't have that article, anymore, I passed the magazine on to someone else.

Also FWIW, Nighthawk 1911s have a funky internal extractor that is like an external extractor in the sense that it is tensioned by coil springs. Brownells sells them (by Millenium Custom). If they weren't good I'd assume Nighthawk wouldn't use them. Pricey, super-duper nice pistols.

Fusion also uses external extractors on their 1911s, and I have heard nothing but good things about them.

 

[keyston44]

Roe, I have a question for you...

I noticed your SW has an external extractor... Kimber tried the external extractor some years ago with poor success, do you see any limitations with that design? To be honest, I don't know what the deal is, except being external it may be vulnerable, but I doubt this. My Kimber has the standard internal extractor design. The HiPower, for one, has (was designed with) the external, I never had problem one with mine.

With Kimber's QC in question, I'm looking for a good, full-sized railed 1911... just like that!

Kimber stopped using the external extractor because of customer demand. There where no issues or problems with their design.
I have 3 Kimber 1911's. One with the external extractor and that one happens to be my number one carry gun.
Personaly, the only extractor problems I've ever had were with internal extractors getting bent or needing adjusting.
Key

 

[Charlie98]

Kimber stopped using the external extractor because of customer demand. There where no issues or problems with their design.
I have 3 Kimber 1911's. One with the external extractor and that one happens to be my number one carry gun.
Personaly, the only extractor problems I've ever had were with internal extractors getting bent or needing adjusting.
Key

I guess I got confused listening to everyone snivel at the fencepost about the Kimbers. I don't know, I guess Kimbers are kind of like Glops GLOCKS, either you love them or you love to hate them. From what I gathered, Kimber switched back to the internal because they couldn't get the external ones correct. Not having one, I just took them at their word; thanks for clearing that up.

Makes sense to me, think about it...Sig Sauer, M&P, Glock, H&K, Ruger, FN (including Hi Powers), etc., etc. all have external extractors. The Hi Power design originally called for an internal extractor but was changed to external fairly early on.

I didn't know that about the HP, either. Not criticizing the external, per se, if the design called for it originally, but from what I have read here and other forums, even small changes to the 1911 will alter it's performance and reliability.

I've had such really good luck with my Kimber, I'm almost afraid to drop coin for another one and wind up disappointed.

 

[miatakix]

So why not look around a little? You ever check out STI?

 

[MudMan]

I guess I got confused listening to everyone snivel at the fencepost about the Kimbers. I don't know, I guess Kimbers are kind of like Glops GLOCKS, either you love them or you love to hate them. From what I gathered, Kimber switched back to the internal because they couldn't get the external ones correct. Not having one, I just took them at their word; thanks for clearing that up.

I didn't know that about the HP, either. Not criticizing the external, per se, if the design called for it originally, but from what I have read here and other forums, even small changes to the 1911 will alter it's performance and reliability.

I've had such really good luck with my Kimber, I'm almost afraid to drop coin for another one and wind up disappointed.

I have owned six Kimbers, one Custom (Government), two Pro Carry (Commander), two Compact, and one Ultra Carry (Officers). The only problem I ever had was a bad barrel that had a burr in it that always marred cases and sometimes jammed the gun. It was sent back to Kimber. They replaced the barrel and returned it ASAP. No more problem. I would not hesitate to buy another one if I wanted another 1911.

 

[Barenjager]

Roe, I have a question for you...

I noticed your SW has an external extractor... Kimber tried the external extractor some years ago with poor success, do you see any limitations with that design? To be honest, I don't know what the deal is, except being external it may be vulnerable, but I doubt this. My Kimber has the standard internal extractor design. The HiPower, for one, has (was designed with) the external, I never had problem one with mine.

With Kimber's QC in question, I'm looking for a good, full-sized railed 1911... just like that!

Not Roe, here, but FWIW I read a recent article about that new E-Series and they mentioned the external extractor. According to them, the success or failure of an external extractor 1911 has more to do with the manufacturer's experience and know-how with external extractors, and S&W has extensive experience, here. They said it was as good as any.

Makes sense to me, think about it...Sig Sauer, M&P, Glock, H&K, Ruger, FN (including Hi Powers), etc., etc. all have external extractors. The Hi Power design originally called for an internal extractor but was changed to external fairly early on.

Precisely! Both internal and external extractors have proven to be extremely reliable when they are designed and set up properly. I think the problems that Kimber had with their external extractors related more to the QC issues and growing pains the company went through (still are, according to some) as they struggled to keep up with demand.

As I stated above, that S&W has been 100% reliable from the very start with a wide array of target and self defense ammo. I can see no weaknesses in the system, nor have I heard of ongoing problems with external extractors, not only on their 1911's, but their entire line of autos.

As you know, most of the autoloaders I have are 1911 pattern guns, all but the Smith have internal extractors, and all have been very troublefree, even when using brass that has been loaded many times and the rims are very beat up. The S&W has been no exception...for that matter, the other autos I have/had that use an external extractor (S&W 39, CZ75B, High Power, along with numerous .22's) have all been stellar with no problems related to the extractors. Fact is, there are far more autoloaders with external extractors than internal.

Not criticizing the external, per se, if the design called for it originally, but from what I have read here and other forums, even small changes to the 1911 will alter it's performance and reliability.
I've had such really good luck with my Kimber, I'm almost afraid to drop coin for another one and wind up disappointed.

You pay your money and you take your chances, but I wouldn't overlook any of the well made 1911's on the market today because they have an external extractor. And concerning the changes to the 1911, as JMB designed it...many of the changes that we see on current models have actually improved performance and reliability (like lowered and flaired ejection ports), although there are some designs or changes that prove troublesome (like the ultra short barreled examples).

Concerning the S&W 1911PD specifically...the reason I chose this model was because, at the time, it was the only 5" 1911 with a rail that used an alloy frame. My intent, the reason I bought the gun in the first place, was as a dedicated home defense weapon with white llight and laser capabilities. My desire was to keep the overall weight with the IT M6 attached as close as possible to a standard 1911 and this S&W met this challenge, albeit with a little more muzzel heaviness. It's reliability and accuracy right out of the box was not exactly expected, but is obviously warmly welcomed.

Roe