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Discussion Starter #1
I bought this 457193 lyman mould back before the summer this year and poured bullets for
the hunting season this year. I just about to go hunting and started to load some of the
bullets (30-1 lead/tin). Made a test bullet and discovered this:

my cases are trimmed to 2.095
when the bullet is seated in the crimping groove the O.A.L. is nearly 2.600 and the book
calls for Marlin O.A.L. of 2.550. I would need to cut .050 off of the case length making it 2.045 in
order to have this bullet meet the O.A.L. of 2.550 to function in the marlin (45-70).

I am an experienced reloader and I don't understand this. Has lyman missed something?
I will only be able to use this bullet in a single shot. I really wanted to shoot this bullet in
my 1895.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

Has anyone run into this problem with this bullet before, if so how did you solve it?

Sitting here with a case of the red butt.

SS
 

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Swampy have you tried them to see if they cycle and feed?

Cheers,
Mark.
 

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SwampSniper,
The 457193 was the original Marlin .45-70 bullet and should be seated to crimp over the front driving band.
The "crimp groove" that you mentioned is actually another grease groove.

When I first began loading this bullet for my .45-70 Marlin back in the late 1970's, I thought the same thing that you indicated.
I then found out that the proper way to seat the bullet was to crimp over the front driving band rather than under it.

This bullet was originally designed to be used with a case full of black powder which would support the back of the bullet as would a capacity load of the right smokeless powder. I killed a 300 lb. boar with this bullet and a capacity load of H335 back in the late 70's. It was a quartering shot. The bullet entered the right front shoulder, penetrated 3 feet and exited the left rear hip. Pretty decisive!

Have fun!
w30wcf
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Oz,

Yes I did try to feed them and it jamed. Had to disassemble to remove the cartrige.

30wcf,

I thought about crimping infront of the driving band, it would meet the OAL measurement, but I didn't have
any powder other than black that would fill the case safely and I didn't want to take cleaning gear with me.
Aslo I didn't want to take the chance with the powders that I have. It may have been alright, I don't know,
but the powder I was using did not fill to the base of the bullet.

What you say makes since, but that groove is not shaped like the other grease grooves. I'm leaving
tomorrow night for the hunt, long drive, if I have time tomorrow I will load some and see how it turns out.

Do you remember the charge wt. of the H335, I know where some of that is that I can get tomorrow?

Thanks for the replys,

SS
 

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SwampSniper,
Sorry I am a bit late in responding. I had not checked back hear for awhile. Hope that your hunt worked out well. Perhaps Lyman has changed the bullet design if the front groove is that much narrower than the others(?). I should have also mentioned that if your sizing die resizes the case enough, the bullet would most likely stay in place without a case full of powder. I will have to look at my old notes for the charge of H335 I used. A capacity load of H322, 3031 or 4895 (for MARLINS ONLY! and modern single shots) would give similar results.

w30wcf
 

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I do believe that bullet came out long before the 1895 Marlin rifle based on the 336 action. the original 1895 Marlins had a much longer action and the bullet would have worked just fine in that gun. This is something that one has to watch out for when using some of the Lyman .45 caliber bullets designed for the 45-60, 45-70 45-90 etc.
I've always thought that Marlin screwed up royally by using the 336 action instead of coming out with a proper length action for the 45-70 and related rounds.
You might try seating the bullets to the proper depth and pushing the cartridge against a hard surface with as much weight behind it as you can muster. Try it with a dummy round. If it doesn't allow the bullet to be pushed in, you may not need to crimp. Even if the bullet does not push in, you might want to reduce the thickness of the expander plus by about .0015" to .002" so that the neck tension will be a bit tighter. Just be careful you don't make it too small and that should fix your problem.
Paul B.
 

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PaulB,
Good points! Regarding the 457193 which is a copy of the U.M.C. .45-70 Marlin bullet......as loaded for the .45-70 Marlin, the U.M.C. factory cartridge was produced with the crimp over the front driving band.

w30wcf
 
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