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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I picked up a older 336-A chambered for 32 Win. Spl. I don't have any dies for it, or gaschecks. But I didn't let that stop me. I necked up 50 30-30 cases, and use either SAECO 305 as it comes from the mould or size down RCBS 32-170-FN to .314" and patch them with 15# printer paper up to .325". That way they're a perfect slip fit in fired cases. Load is 4 gr. IMR4227 + enough WC860 to set the bullet depth correctly to allow the patch to engrave the rifling when the bolt is closed. Produces near factory ballistics, 170gr. is running 2200 fps and accuracy around 1.5 MOA which is about as good as I can do with iron sights (have a Lyman 66 sight on it) and no pressure problems. Brass never sees a die except to get decapped, and is on its 30th or so loading with no failures. Haven't even needed to trim any. Sure does work well for the levergun silhouette matches.

Gotta like shooting that is as cheap and effective as this is, costs less than shooting 22LR and WC860 is one of the few powders that is still available. (From Welcome to Bartlett Reloaders - Jeff Bartlett) As a bonus, the PP bullets clean the bore so it never needs to be brushed out - at least not in approximately 1500 rounds so far.

-Nobade
 

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Could you post an image of the finished product? This sounds very interesting to me. Do you mix the powders, or put the 4227 in first, then the other powder on top of that? Can you load these in the magazine, or shoot them one at a time. I hope these aren't silly questions, but I'm trying to picture the process in my mind. Thanks, Joel
 

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nobade
been doing pp for two or three years great luck in the larger cal but 30s were giving me fits untill i went to slower powders. i think that 16 twist might be very good for pp
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Could you post an image of the finished product? This sounds very interesting to me. Do you mix the powders, or put the 4227 in first, then the other powder on top of that? Can you load these in the magazine, or shoot them one at a time. I hope these aren't silly questions, but I'm trying to picture the process in my mind. Thanks, Joel
Sure thing, the next time I load up a box I will get some pictures.

You do not want to mix the powders. Put the kicker charge in first, then the 860 on top of it, and make sure you use enough to produce a compressed load so they don't mix together.

If anybody contemplates duplex loading, do your homework first. It is very easy to get in trouble doing this, and even though I have been doing it a long time there are only a few powder types I would try it with. Mainly things like this surplus 50BMG and 20MM powder that are normally FAR too slow to even start to burn right in normal rifle cartridges. By duplex loading them it gets the pressure up to a point where they start to burn correctly and clean, and give good performance. But do not ever contemplate duplex loading any powder that has even a remote chance of working correctly by itself, or you may be sorry.

Also choose your kicker charge carefully. Don't use anything that shouldn't be compressed (No Trailboss!) and pick a medium/fast burning powder like 4227, 2015,2400,4759,5744, etc. for the kicker. You want something that lights off easily but doesn't burn TOO fast. Just get that initial pressure up enough to get the super slow ball powders to burn clean.

-Nobade
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
nobade
been doing pp for two or three years great luck in the larger cal but 30s were giving me fits untill i went to slower powders. i think that 16 twist might be very good for pp
You're right, the larger ones are a lot easier. The super slow powder does work great in 30 cals, I am seeing sub MOA groups pretty regularly from my 30-06 shooting 171gr. NRA bullets at 2700 fps. Another thing to try if you have "normal" powder is drop the powder charge and replace some of it with granular filler such as BPI shot buffer or cream 'o' wheat. The filler acts like a super gascheck and lets the bullet get into the bore without being damaged, and usually improves accuracy considerably. Just be careful with pressure since the filer will raise it a lot. Start really light on the powder charge and slowly increase the powder and decrease the filler until you get where you want to be, while making sure the whole thing is a tightly compressed load.

The 1:16 twist is indeed very easy to get accuracy with. Far easier with normal cast and PP than a 1:10 or 1:12 30-30. That is one reason I am so high on the 32 Win Spl recently, I never understood the point until I got one and now I very much prefer it over a 30-30.

-Nobade
 

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I thought about granulated fillers under my Ppatches - I got some regular BP felt wads in all the calibers.

Wonder if a thin felt wad held lightly against the patched base by just enough dacron might be good? That dacron stuff seems very light and wispy in amounts still able to fill the air gaps nicely.

Nice shootin by the way Nobade...
 

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Are there any good powders for pp that would be easy for us novices to try with? Eventually i plan on getting around to paper as soon as I get a little more schooling on regular casting first.
 

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sparky
slower powders(for cartridge) seem to work best for me, i have not used much ball powder, but the experts say it is better(causes less base deformation). i have had my best and fastest results with the larger calibers 8mm and up
 

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Nobade, Interesting stuff about duplex loads. Read about them in old reloading manuals but didn't think anyone used them anymore. I get the part about the "kicker" to
get the pressure up so the slow powder will burn correctly. But what benefit do you see from using such a slow powder? I'm not really considering PP bullets but inquiering minds and all.

Regards,
 
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mike
its makes for a more gentle launch, the fast powders distort the base of the bullet. nobade has done a lot of work in this area and i have used a lot of his tips, but i dont duplex i just use(slow for the cartridge) powder
 

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Don't know the first thing about paper patched lead bullets, but I do shoot "regular" cast bullets from my four .32 Win Specials. I shot the above targets with my 1957 Ballard rifled Marlin 336SC. The first target is five shots using the Ranch Dog 323-175 weighing 182 grains lubed and checked sized to .3233. Powder is Alliant 2400 @ 1744 fps. Second target is also five shots from the same rifle using the RCBS 08-170 bullet also at 182 grains lubed and checked sized to .3225. Using Leverevolution powder it's speed is 2300 fps. Both loads employ 50/50 Alox lube (both of these were from Javelina Alox Lube).

358 Win
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Nobade, Interesting stuff about duplex loads. Read about them in old reloading manuals but didn't think anyone used them anymore. I get the part about the "kicker" to
get the pressure up so the slow powder will burn correctly. But what benefit do you see from using such a slow powder? I'm not really considering PP bullets but inquiering minds and all.

Regards,

Green Lizzard answered most of the reasons, but the other is right now that powder is easily available and quite cheap, unlike pretty much any other powder out there. Plus it is super safe - I haven't found any way to hurt myself loading it in anything. I don't own a 6mmx300 weatherby mag or anything, but in any normal rifle cartridge it's pretty foolproof.

-Nobade
 
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