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Discussion Starter #1
I am a long ways from starting, but like to beging assimulate info in a binder, so when I am ready....it will be all there.

I have Bruce's 465 grain mold for my GG. I have them at sized to .462 for my particuliar gun. I am also using Hornaday crimp on checks.


Here is where I am at, first I just finished reading Paul Mathews ' The Paper Jackect', excellent read.

As time goes buy, I am getting more and more into 'the more I can do myself....the better,...up to a point. I know it more time consuming to patch versu just slipping on a check. However, from what I have been reading, seeing on the various forums (MO and Castboolits) and talking with friends who patches, I understand the potential of better accuracy and a little more ooomph!

From what I am gathering, I will need to size the .462 down to at least .456 or .457, to maintain my .462 size after wrapping....again, for my particuliar GG. I have a Lee .457 sizing die....is taking .005 off too much in one stroke?...or do I need to get an in between die around .460? The goal is to bring the bullet back to around .462 after two wrapps.

Once the paper has dried, I know that I need to lube and then run through my .462 die again. Matthews mentioned using beeswax and vasiline......any experience with this out there?Also I am a little concern about the paper being damameged when crimping. I am using RCBS Cowboy dies and Lee's FCD.]Then I guess I need to water prooof the paper if I choosed to let some be exposed. What to use? If[ I cut the paper so its just inside the case, what keeps the paper from shreading with the crimp?

Lonerider
 

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First, your crimp question. The Lee FCD is the best answer. The radial compression of the collet will not cut the paper like the old school roll crimp. A Lyman taper crimp can work as well. Do a push test on a bathroom scale to 60 lbs or so if you want to test the crimp.

My suggestion would be to try a single wrap on the as cast bullet and run it through a sizer. No harm in a single wrap if it has a little overlap. (Just size once)

Now the push through sizer like the Lee is the best option 'cause if you use a RCBS or Lyman style sizer where the bullet has to reverse direction the paper seems to take offense at realigning the fibers in a different direction at the bottom of the stroke and it is sometime hard to get them back out of the die. Strongly suggest that you size them in the direction that they will pass through the bore. I've used the RCBS style sizers but it is work.

Easiest lube is a lithium based chassis grease (from you garage?). Lithium is the most water proof of greases commonly available. Apply with fingers and size. You can try mixing up something later.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Do a push test on a bathroom scale to 60 lbs or so if you want to test the crimp.
Never heard of this before...I like it.

Thanks Hudson for responding...begining to think I may have made a mistake to post on this board.

I am in the process of making a 'patching board' as matthews suggest. I am sure I do not really need it and I can 'roll' just find with out one. But I kinda like gizmos and gadgets. So why not a patching board.

I have all ready been playing with different scrap paper laying around, just to see what happens.

I actually have one of Bruces boolit that I did size down to .457, using Lee's push through. This is the boolit that I am using to experiement with the different papers and practice my wrapping. Once wrapped, I then measure with a caliper, just to see. Had some typing paper and ended up with .475 after two wraps.....oooops!

I am finding twisting the tail is a little tricky, to get it center and with just enough preasure, with out tearing.

Normal sizing and applying GC, I am using Buckshot's (from Castboolits Forum) .462 sizer he made for me.....great work!!!!

Just for the heck of it, I have practicing lube my paper patch with Ray Holes saddle butter. It has beeswax, carnauba wax, tallow and pure nests-foot oil. No synthetic or mineral oils. Waterproofs leather, so why not paper patches. I apply with fingers, just a little dap. The saddle butter impregnates the paper patch all the way through. Don't know if that is good, but I am just practicing.

...."My suggestion would be to try a single wrap on the as cast bullet and run it through a sizer. No harm in a single wrap if it has a little overlap. (Just size once)".....

Is this after I size down to .457?

Will a single wrap be enough?...my understanding is the lead should not make contact with rifling of the barrel...will the boolit should be protected?

I am not into mass reloading (great big batches of hundreds and hundreds...at least for the 45-70 Gov't)...so I like the idea of rolling/wrapping each one...almost like theropy. ;D

Now as far as the crimping....Is this with paper exposed, or just below the case mouth? Would I use my normal preassure or slightly less?

I am really hoping that there are other Marlin levergun owners that shoot the 45-70 that also paper patch, that would pipe in here. I am kinda dissappointed...but I will take what I can get.

I am pretty excited....The thought of casting my own boolit, paper patch them, reload them and possibly take a critter with one of "MY" homemades....is something to be proud of.

Lithium?...before loaded into case, or just the part that is exposed?...or not? please clarify.

Wont be able to try them out until end of Aug, just before school, because I have my GG at the 'smith for a little 'personalizing'. Hoping to have at least 100 boolits cast and patched, so I can find just the right load. Will be using H-322, unless others have a thought on powders for PP boolits.

Still have close to a 1000 Hornaday checks to use, when sizing with .462 sizer and tumble lube. Its just I can't get the paper patch thing out of mind. The whole concept, history, and uniqueness...resonates with me.

Lonerider
 

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One wrap is enough. I suggest you wrap the un-sized bullet with one wrap. Say a fairly thin 16lb paper with a good cotton fiber content of 25% or more.

Do not try to twist the tail so much as squeeze it together. You can twist after it dries and cut off the excess with diagonal cutters.

Lube the bullet before sizing and load it.

Paper can extend outside the case, despite what might tell you. He wrote before the Lee FCD and Lyman taper crimp dies when roll crimping would cut off the paper. However, you recall that I indicated that paper did not like to reverse course in a sizer? Well, it doesn't like to get jammed into a forcing cone and rifling and then get pulled out by the extractor. (extraction might be tough but you can certainly shoot them out). So, you need to load so the paper does not get forced into the rifling but just touches the forcing cone. Chamber a round before crimping to have the bullet pushed back into the case but your rifling so you have a guide. Then crimp that round and re try in the chamber. Chamber length seems to vary a lot. My custom mold has a groove to locate the edge of the paper so that it is recessed and does not hang up on the loading gate. Matthews is correct instating that the paper edge easily gets torn on the loading gate. You can stone the edge to help a bit.

As regards your bullet diameter, seems a bit large for a modern Marlin guide gun. Try the free end to see if the nose fits into the rifling with out much engraving. Most guns measure way smaller - mine .4575". The un-patched bullet nose should just fir the inside diameter of the rifling.

You're on your own with the patch board. I just use my paws.

Good Luck and Oh, yeah, there are others out there who patch for the 1895's.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Hud, as mentioned, wont be able to actual load and chamber until receive my GG from the 'smith towards the end of Aug. Like I said, have some personallizing to it.

However, I can and will play with the wrapping until then. I am experiementing with anything that resembles paper, you know napkins, newsprint, ex-marriage liscense ;D, bills, ect.....

Since I am using a Lee and Buckshot push thru sizer, I think I am OK with the boolit going in the right direction, for the paper.

I have been meaning to do what you and others have mentioned, in loading a boolit but not crimp and see what my overall length was and if she will cycle. One more thing on my to do list.

I am so jazzed!

I going to have fun messing with things, until I get my GG back.

Thanks again.

Will post pictures soon.

Lonerider
 

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Lonerider,

Welcome to the Paper Patching world. It is a wonderful way to further enjoy reloading and shooting, I have been making Paper Patched bullets for a few years for a few different calibers and one is the Marlin 1895 I do not have a lot of time right now because I am on break but I can tell you that the patch does not need to come out of the case of the mouth very much if any. I leave about a 1/16 of mine sticking out and the load from the tube to the chamber without tearing the patches. Actually I believe you could go with a little less if wanted but it is nice to be able to see and know what you have. I like Hudson also use the Lee FCD for crimping my bullets and I just put a slight bit of pressure on the bullet, and I then look down at it to see the jaws crimping down on the case mouth. I have never had any patches come apart that I know of. Course it's had to tell after you pull the trigger. ;D I love that snow effect and it is fun when others at the shooting range notice. ;D ;D
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Jannont. Can't even tell ya where or how the bug got started, but its here non-the-less.

I need to cast a bunch of boolits for my GG this week and start experiementing with the different papers and see what they will come out with.

Hud...the .462 boolit is a little large, but in mine, it works just fine and is very accurate.

Bruce and I conversed back in forth, while I was in the process of ordering one of molds. In MY gun, its just fine with the gas checks. However, after reviewing your posts and what I can gather, I will need to sizer her down to about 457/458...so the lead wont be cut into once paper patched. I think that is why others uses the .454 pistol bullets, instead. At least one of my friends do in his 45-70.

I think what intriques me, is the slowing down of life a bit. Adding paper patching to reloading, is one more component that takes time away from shooting/ hunting....so its been said to me.

I am looking at it from another perspective......

The more that I am able to determine how my loads are put together, the more I have confidence in the cartridge.....

Of course, nostalga as some play in it also. As mentioned before, just the idea of taking a bull elk with one of my hand loads..have me dreaming of a big 8 point (western count) hanging on my wall.

The question...'why bother'?....the answer would be....'Because I can'!

Hud and Janott....did either of your load velocities increase after paper patching?....was there an increase of accuracy for your particuliar gun?...or are they about the same?

Just curios or if the hype of shooting heavier boolits faster and farther.....just that....hype?

I am ok with this, if that is the case.....

Paper patching would just be another alternative to GC, but something that I can do myself and not have to pay....$40+ for a box of check when I can find them.

Just was wondering is all.

Lonerider
 

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Lonerider,

I'm going to be tied up working again today ::) but have a few minutes. ;) I'm not certain about the difference in velocity but I do know that paper patched bullets were far more accurate, so the pressures are more consistent.
Why bother your friends ask, well, next time you go out shooting bring them along to see what you are capable of doing with a PPB. 8)
Heavier bullets are my preference, I have used lighter bullets and they are fine but heavier bullets have better range higher BC, seem to be more accurate and I prefer them for hunting and some of the areas I hunt have grizzlies.

Joe
 
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