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Hornaday is coming out with more powerful 30-30 loads. Someone pointed out that Winchester had a more powerful 30-30 shell also. How are they getting faster shells? Are they loading over recommended maximums in reloading books? Do any of you reload over the recommended maximums?
 

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Factories have access to powders and testing equipment that we don't. There are also times when the advertising department has a powerful imagination. Don't believe any advertised velocity until you have chrongraphed it.

I would not exceed book loads in a lever rifle. The Remington 788 in .30-30 that I once owned was a different story. I might push things a bit in a new NEF, but that is the only current production .30-30 that I can think of that is of great strength. I would stick strictly to the book in any NEF/H&R without an SB-2 action or with a Savage 340 or 170, if I ran into one of them.

There's not a lot of point in pushing the limits. Even with the 788, I was only able to get a little over 100 fps over book before I ran into case life problems.
 

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It sounds to me like someone has 'New And Improved!' the 30-30! I wouldn't buy it, though. In our sue-happy society certainly the ammunition manufacturers would not produce over-maximum loads sold over the counter. I suppose the manufacturers are using newer powders and maybe extracting some additional performance but the 30-30 bullets commonly available cannot handle much more velocity and still retain acceptable downrange performance.

Or maybe I'm all wet.

I don't know, it seems to me if you want super-peformance 30-30 rounds, or whatever caliber, you need a bigger cartridge to start with. Why push the limits of, for example, 30-30 bullet performance and test the action strength of your trusty Winchester or Marlin lever gun? Go and buy a 30-06 or a 45-70, 348 WCF or 35 Rem if you want a lever gun with more power.
 

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My question is this. Why soup up the 30-30 at all? It works just fine as is.
Interesting comparison. The first edition Hornady loading manual copyright 1967 said 31.5 gr. of IMR-3031 was the maximum load. The current Hornady manual, copyright 2003 says 28.5 gr. is the top load. (Both loads were for the 170 gr. Hornady FN bullet.) Velocity was dropped from 2200 FPS to 2000 FPS.
For the 150 gr. bullet and 3031, the old book gave 33.8 gr. for 2400 FPS and the new book gives 31.4 for 2200 FPS. What I find interesting is that old book data for the 150 gr. bullet is what their "new" hot loading is supposed to give with that bullet.
I have quite a few of the older manuals to do comparisons with, and I find it somewhat strange that loads that worked before and now "too hot"?????
Now befpre anyone lights up their M1A3-5 Flamethrower, I know that both IMR and Alliant have changed one of the components they use to make their powders. It would seem to me, that as the change was a cost saving procedure (IE cheaper material to make the powder) you'd think they'd pass a bit of the savings on to us, rather than raise the prices on the powder. :x For those who don't know he change, they went from the more expensive cotton linter to sawdust to make the nitrocellulose used in making all smokeles powders. From what I heard, the savings were rather substantial.
As far as velocity goes, I have not chronied any 30-30 ammo in years as all I have shot were my handloads. It might be interwesting to go out and buy a sample of say Winchester 150 and 170 gr. ammo and run them through several 30-30 rifles I have. I have 20, 24 and 26 inch barrelled rifles. I'll pass on the 14" Contender. :lol:
While this is a bit off thread, I did run a few rounds of current Winchester 30-06 over the Chrony a whaile back. Imagine my shock when that ammo only reached 2610 FPS instead of the advertised 2700 FPS. The rifle was a custom Mauser with very tight chamber and match grade 24"barrel. The gun is very accurate and shows high pressure much sooner than some of my other 30-06 rifles. In my 1895 Browning, that same ammo only delivered 2580 FPS over the Chrony and it also has a 24" barrel. Yup! It might be mighty interesting to see what current factory ammo does these days.
Paul B.
 

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I agree with LODJ; the 30-30 case will only take so much pressure. I used to shoot a lot of IHMSA and hot-rodded 30-30 as much as I thought I dared. I would get signs of incipient head separation on the first firing, so I gave up on it and had my 221 XP100 rebarreled to 7-08. Much better!! :D The 7-08 and 6.5TCU in a 10" bbl took care of my IHMSA needs pretty well - that & my bro's Dan Wesson 44mag. SW
 
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Paul, In my 20" M336, I've cronied the RP factory 170's at 2094fps and have unloaded both WW and RP 30/30 factory loads to find a ball powder that looks like a slow lot of W748. They seem to use a charge of W748 in 150 and 170 grain loads that will fill up the case with the bullet seated but weighs a little more than we can safely use with bought W748. Of course my factory loads might be 20 years old or so, I use all handloads when shooting unless I want to compare something. BM

Bill
 

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Along the lines of what Paul was saying about variances in the reloading 'bibles' I have, there are even vast differences in modern reloading manuals. In one case I found one manual's starting load was a max load in another manual!

Speer #11, 45ACP, 230FMJ: start: 5.9 Unique @ 746fps; max: 6.9 @851fps;

Hodgdon #26, 45ACP, 230FMJ: start: 5.0 Unique @ 794fps; max: 6.0 @ 898fps.

Hodgdon's 6.0 grains of Unique was 150fps faster than Speer's 5.9 grains at 746fps, even faster than Speer's Max load of 6.9 grains... :shock:

Yes, I know that there are different type testing methods, test barrels vs. pistol barrels, etc., even ambient temperature.

I think the ammunition manufacturers are like car manufacturers with their engines now a days... trying to get more power out of a smaller package, or at least more power out of the same package. But you know what they say... Nothing Beats Cubic Inches, or, pharaprased... Nothing beats a Bigger Cartridge..!
 

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Ignore all the hype and go with what has worked for over 100yrs.
 

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From what I understand (based only on what I have read) some of the cartridges which are loaded faster are loaded by basically compressinga special propellant into the case. Anyone who has compressed many different loads will know that doing so eventually produces cases which bulge near the shoulder as the powder compression is not equally distributed. I believe the ammo companies who actually do this successfully do it in stages by compressing the entire powder column. Obviously there is some powder crunching going on which would lead me to believe that it is something best left to the ones with big bucks and good labs. Too, I believe the method requires case supports to be used during powder compression, something which might require considerable creativity, not to mention safety issues, to resolve. I seriously doubt they are higher pressure. Any SAAMI member is obliged to stick to SAAMI standards for a given cartridge.
 

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I have noticed that Hodgdon gives their pressure data for thier loads. Older data I have shows higher pressure than the newer data. The older data is still within SAAMI specs. Though the caution is always that the powder may have changed over time and you should go with the newer information.

I don't remember where I read this but I remember respecting the opinion of the poster. They had noticed that in their reloading with Hodgdon powders their best groups were very close to what Hodgdon lists for newer max loads. They thought that Hodgdon listed the most accurate useful charge instead of the biggest powder charge under SAAMI max. Even if it were a little slower.

I'm reasonably new to reloading having only been at it a few years. One of the first lessons I learned was this, the fastest load was almost never the best load for me.
 

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Remember the importance of using the same components as the reloading data gives you. Down through the years there have been articles on the different velocities that come just from changing the primer. Case volume, bullet hardness, amount of crimping, etc. will all give you changes in velocity. The answer about the manufacturers using powders that we can't get is true. The Hornady Light Magnum rounds are a good example. I haven't seen any loads for the .444 Marlin that come close to what they are getting.

Remember, just because the powder that comes out of a factory round looks like an over the counter powder, I wouldn't bet on the two being the same.

Don't rely on the classic pressure signs. If you don't see them in a Weatherby Magnum round running at 55,100 CUP, then you shouldn't expect to see them in a round like the .30-30.
 
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