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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, I know some of you know more about this sort of thing than you let on. Well, I sure don't! I bought a Jap Type I & got it today. Since I sent the MO & FFL off, I've been doing as much research as I can, & I still don't know a lot about these. Other than the Jap navy bought about 50K of them from Italian arsenals in 38 & 39 because the army snapped up all the rifles the jap arsenals could make.

So, what did the Jap navy do with these? Guarding naval installations? Landing parties? Jap marines? Any insights will be sincerely appreciated! SW

 

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That split stock has me thinking drill purpose and parade training. The Japanese were quite heavily influenced by German military thought at the turn of the century. Your pix don't show if these are fitted for bayonets or not. It would be interesting to see how this gun is marked. I'll check my books and see what I can find....

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Doc,

All jap stocks were split like that to get more stock from the same amount of lumber. When the IJN ordered these from the Italian arsenals, they specified the stocks be made this way. I have seen a training rifle, and the best way to tell them is a cast iron receiver & some even have a smooth bore. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me - ya might as well train with something you can actually use. Of course, there was a world-wide shortage of rifles when they were doing that. The Austrians reamed a bunch of captured Carcanos to 6.5 Greek - they had quite a bit of the Greek ammo that never got shipped for political reasons. The Italians relined thousands of the 10.4 Vetterlis to take the 6.5X52 round - gave 'em to native levies & they were also for training.

The Type I takes a regular Type 30 bayonet. Got one ordered. As for markings, the only thing is the 4 digit serial number and a tiny stamp on the inside of the safety that leads me to believe this one was fabricated at the Brescia arsenal - or at least the safety was. - Italians never numbered the various parts of the Carcano rifles. I got into Italian rifles since they are one of the few categories that haven't risen dramatically in price. Same reason I started collecting Marlins in the 70s - they were a bunch cheaper than the other stuff I liked.

This category is very interesting because there just isn't a lot of information about it. Somebody knows, though! :wink: SW
 

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From John Walter's book rifles of the world, 2nd edition:

{Quote}

I-Type Rifle, Mannlicher Carcano:

Assembled by Fabbrica Nazionale d'Armi, Terni, 1938-9; major subcontractors included the Italian government factories in Gardone (RSFAE) and Brescia (FNAB), plus Pietro Beretta SpA.

Total production: 60,000 Chambering: 6.5 x 50, semi rimmed. 2475 fps with Meiji 38th year type ball cartridges. Meiji 38th year type sword bayonet.

Embroilment in a war with China caught the Japanese authorities with too few rifles to satisfy mobilization. However, a mutual trade agreement allowed large numbers of hybrid rifles to be ordered in Italy in 1937. These combined Japanese style barrels, sights, bayonets, and stocks with Mannlicher type split bridge actions.

The butts of some rifles were shortened in 1940 by 0.75in (20mm),suiting them to troops of small stature. The I-type rifles were replaced by the Type 99 in 1941, with survivors being relegated to training duties. {Quote}

Walter makes no specific mention of the IJN. There is no photograph accompanying the text. I wasn't aware that all Japanese rifles were made with the two piece stock- it may have been a war time expedient. I've got photos of Arisakas with the two piece stock, as well as one piece stocks in my books.

Congrats on the new rifle- the wood is in nice shape. As for how the rifles were used in war, I haven't found anything yet.

I agree with your thoughts that soldiers should train with what they go into combat with. Trainers are interesting- especially the .22's- they haven't gotten into the price range of Mausers and Garands yet, but some are getting there- especially the 44 U.S. ..... I better turn it off here.
Sounds like an interesting cartridge to me- 2475 fps is not exactly in the slouch range!

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Doc,

Thank you!! I don't have that book - I looked in Smith's book of rifles and Small arms of the world as well as some lesser volumes I have. An engine search didn't turn much up, either. This may be something we will never know. But since the japs were in dire straits from 1944 on, they may have been issued to line units. I took the bolt clear apart a little while ago & found a Beretta stamp on one piece & a Brescia stamp on another. There are no other markings whatsoever save the serial #.

I've got some 140 grainers loaded safely to a velocity near mil-spec. Soon as the snow melts a little, I'll get out to the range & see how it does. The bore was pretty grungy, but it's cleaning up well. The bolt was still full of cosmoline. The previous owner must have been a chain smoker for the wood smells strongly of nicotine. I'll try some lemon flavor furniture polish to cure that unless someone has a better trick. SW
 

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Must have been a pipe smoker- nothing quite permeates wood like pipe tabacco smoke. Mental picture here of hogger's rifle on a rack in some guy's den, wreathed in plumes of Borkum Riff....

Give it a shot of Febreeze into the barrel channel. The Febreeze for automobiles is a smaller cheaper bottle and works well on neutralizing feline "accidents"......

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 
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