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Discussion Starter #1
Wanted to see if any board member had experience with these. I'm very very close to once again having a 45/70 in the house and I am finally going to get off my butt and reload. I started a post in the mentoring section, but wanted some specific info from you fellas as that place seems to be a ghost town.

I will be hunting with Beartooth hardcast boolits, 405 or 425 pile driver Jr and figure these 405gr oregon trail bullets to be a cheaper practice load.

Any thoughts would be great.

On a side line I am thinking of going with starline brass, I hear it is a bit better than the remington winchester stuff. Any truth to that? I plan on buying 100 cases and would like to spend money once, and spending an extra 5-10 dollars on the brass isn't a big deal in the scheme of things if they will give me noticebly better service.
 

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I like the OT 405's alot & load them over 25 grains of 2400 for the most part, though I'm sure they can be pushed MUCH faster than that.

Brass in my experience lasts a LOOOONG time in 45/70. I use mostly PMC because its what I had saved up when I started loading. But I'v used Rem, Federal & Winchester with good results. The only real advice I can give is it seems like nickle cases split at the mouth much sooner than the others. Mouth splitting is the only way I'v lost any 45/70 brass & I have some with over 15 loadings. It seems like a pretty easy on brass caliber the way I use it. Course all that might change if you load it like a .458 mag.
 

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Hey there MattPair -- I'm a big fan of Oregon Trail bullets. Get some, develop a load and let'r rip. Best regards. Wind
 

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I use only Starline cases, nickle and have had very good luck with em. If you are willing to pay extra for the cases you may also consider shooting the the same bullet your going to hunt with, as the cost of beartooth bullets are reasonable and bullets of the same wight don't always shoot the same as you probably know. Starline also makes brass cases if nickle cases split at the mouth more often, something I have not run across myself anymore then brass. Beartooth and Starline make a great combo for me.

Domenic
 

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I use them out of my 1895CB with XMP-5744. No complaints.
 

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The Laser Casts are a good bullet and cheap too! I did experience some minor leading trying to push them over 1600fps. I wish they would make them in .460.

The Starline brass is all I use. Good stuff at a fair price. If you don't hot rod em they will last you a long time! Be careful though. Starline brass has less case capacity than Remington. That means a max load in Rem brass is overloaded in Starline by about 3 grains!
 

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Can anyone give me a reason why OT's suggested max load of IMR 4198 is 5.5 grains lower than the STARTING load suggested by Lyman for their #457193 405 grain bullet that appears to be a near identical bullet. Both loads are supposed to be for the Marlin 1895.

The OT box says their bullets are .459, the Lyman .458
 

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Also look to seating depth with relation to the canalure. The Oregon Trail 405's seat considerably deeper that some of the others including I believe Beartooth. I'd also look at that brass they are using to test... All this combined in the wrong way could make the difference between starting loads and beyond max.
 

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reloader458 said:
I use only Starline cases, nickle and have had very good luck with em. If you are willing to pay extra for the cases you may also consider shooting the the same bullet your going to hunt with, as the cost of beartooth bullets are reasonable and bullets of the same wight don't always shoot the same as you probably know. Starline also makes brass cases if nickle cases split at the mouth more often, something I have not run across myself anymore then brass. Beartooth and Starline make a great combo for me.

Domenic
I shoulda noted my nickle cases are Remington, they might not all act like that and I still got over 5 loads from them, some much more.
 

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kneezer5555 said:
Can anyone give me a reason why OT's suggested max load of IMR 4198 is 5.5 grains lower than the STARTING load suggested by Lyman for their #457193 405 grain bullet that appears to be a near identical bullet. Both loads are supposed to be for the Marlin 1895.

The OT box says their bullets are .459, the Lyman .458
OT I believe uses somebody elses data. At any rate data for 45/70 is all over the place due to the SAAMI limit if 28,000 psi. Some dats stays within that, others take it to the real max & others someplace in between. I doubt they limit it intentionally since they brag about being capable of jacketed velocities and to an extent hard cast lead will be more forgiving loaded hotter. Light loads wont bump them up to fill the bore as well as hotter loads. Not real important if they fit the bore but, as I said more forgiving if they dont. Also as somebody said if the crimp groove puts more bullet into the case pressure will be higher. Not really a bad thing as long as you are aware of it because you will reach higher velocities with less powder. The alloy matters too, OT bullets are hard, the Lyman alloy might be significantly softer yielding different results.

I'd say just start with a conservative load & work up until you are happy but dont go pat Max velocity or powder charge in published data. I use velocity alot more than charge weight as a gage since, to my thinking, a bullet of a given weight needs a certain pressure to reach a certain velocity. While changes in brass & oal will effect how much powder we need to reach a given velocity the pressure needed to get a bullet to that velocity should be pretty steady for the same powder.
I dont go near max normally anyway but feel this is a safe assumption. That said if I do reach a max published charge before I reach whatever velocity I'm looking for I stop & back off until I'm a bit under max charge. But I also look at as many manuals as I can find, because, as you found, sometimes one books max is under anothers starting point for any number of reasons. I recomend those load book manuals, the small caliber specific one. That way you get all the major powder & bullet makers data in one easy to compare book. They make it very easy to note the discrepencies in data for any caliber, but especially the 45/70 and help make sense of the variables & how they can interact with one another.
 

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23 grains SR 4759, Starline Brass, CCI LR Primer, with a 405 Laser Cast = the most fun you can have with your clothes on. About 1200 FPS, NO/LOW recoil and my 1895 SS GG will shoot one hole 5 shot groups at 50 yards (with a 4 power scope off a rest). This is a really FUN way to shoot my GG. Beer Cans to Yard varmints. Snapping turtles Beware. I also have some 3031 loads, but, this load is my favorite "give a way". It lets Everyone Love my 45-70. Repeat, Laser Cast 405's work like a charm in my GG. (Ballard Rifeling) thanks rc
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks, Ya I want these soley for a plinking bullet. I'll hunt with beartooths, I've seen first hand just how well the beartooth bullets perform on game.

I am looking forward to having a very light load I can plink with. The one thing I always wanted was to be able to have an extended range session with my 45/70 but b/c I didn't reload, even the factory 405s and 300s would start to hurt after a couple of boxes.
 

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OT bullets are harder than woodpecker lips. You can find cheaper and softer bullets that will work fine.
The 45-70 doesnt run at high vel. so you dont need that hardness, leading is most commonly the result of ill fitting bullets.
 

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I, too, have just scored a new-in-box Marlin 45/70, a stainless steel beauty made in early 2008, I think. I bought one box of Rem factory loads to make sure it is a shooter and it appears to be accurate just like my other Marlins.

Starline brass is on the way but I have not ordered any bullets to stuff into those yet. Still exploring bullet options, all: jacketed, plated, cast. Seems like lots of guys rate the Rem jacketed 405's well on the Midway USA website and they are reasonable in price. Cast bullets are all over the place for brands.

My question/addition to this thread is: does anybody run Rainier plated bullets in their 45/70? My 357 Marlin just loves their plated 158gr RNFP. No leading issues and priced between jacketed and cast. Regards,

Nail
 

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I'v used them & they were fine. I'd just check your gun to see where to seat them. I seated them the same as other 405's and they jammed into the rifling a little. Not a big deal as long as I fired them but I ejected an unfired round, left the bullet stuck in the bore & flung 25 grains of 2400 all over the bench. Because of the nose profile they needed to be seated a few .000"s deeper than the other 405's I use.
That said I probably wouldn't buy them for it. Cast are cheaper & for me .459 or .460 cause no leading problems at all.
 

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I use Starline brass with SR4759 powder, mild load. The Starline
brass weighed a little more than the Federal and Remington,
leading me to believe that they are a tiny bit sturdier.
FM
 

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flynmoose1 said:
I use Starline brass with SR4759 powder, mild load. The Starline
brass weighed a little more than the Federal and Remington,
leading me to believe that they are a tiny bit sturdier.
FM
Not only sturdier but more importantly theres less room so you'll reach max pressure sooner than with the others. I think Winchester is about the lightest. Pick a powder & weigh a full case of each, you'll be surprised at the difference.
 

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MattPair said:
Wanted to see if any board member had experience with these. I'm very very close to once again having a 45/70 in the house and I am finally going to get off my butt and reload. I started a post in the mentoring section, but wanted some specific info from you fellas as that place seems to be a ghost town.

I will be hunting with Beartooth hardcast boolits, 405 or 425 pile driver Jr and figure these 405gr oregon trail bullets to be a cheaper practice load.

Any thoughts would be great.

On a side line I am thinking of going with starline brass, I hear it is a bit better than the remington winchester stuff. Any truth to that? I plan on buying 100 cases and would like to spend money once, and spending an extra 5-10 dollars on the brass isn't a big deal in the scheme of things if they will give me noticebly better service.
How close is very, very close to having another 45/70 in your home?? ;D :p
This GG is calling for you ! ::)
 
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