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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would like to find one rifle pistol powder but given the different velocities really one for rifle. I would like imr 4064 but I can only find one loading with a jacketed bullet. The other problem is what I can find. Given I shoot 5.56mm , 45 acp which I use CLAYS for not the universal and of course my favorite round but have only been loading the .45-70 with bp substitutes because I haven't been lucky finding load data for powders that are smokeless
:questionmark:
 

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cds45/70,

There are quite a few powders that might safely make the firearm go bang in a push comes to shove situation. For example 4831 will work in at least the range from .243 up to and including the bigger cartridges like a 300 Weatherby Mag.

I have used that powder with great results in many rifles, but each firearm being a rule unto itself, there is just simply no way to know what is optimum without testing in a given firearm.

Recently I picked up some IMR4198 as it will again safely go bang in a wide range of cast bullet loads, from at least things like the 30/30 up to and including the 45/70, plus it will work for the .223 and a bunch of others.

It again may or may not be optimum with any given rifle.

I have had friends ask about what powders to look for and in conditions such as we have had, likely to some degree during the clinton error and for sure during obamanations #1 & 2 and I try to clearly state that they must take into consideration the situation we find ourselves in.

I like to have a stash of the "push comes to shove" type powders even though given better conditions those powders may or may not be the ones I use.

With reasonable component availability I let my firearm tell me what it likes and go with that powder, while right this moment it might be much more important to just have a usable firearm in hand even if the groups are not what I'd want during "normal" times.

The advice to get some handloading manuals is VERY IMPORTANT, not only to answer your question, but for the safety of yourself and others.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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Nah, you dont want 4064 for a 45-70... Send all what you got to me and I will dispose of it for you... :flute:


Doc
 

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H4895 is a good middle of the road powder that will work in most rifle cartridges (and seems to work insanely good for lead bullets in 30 caliber cartridges), but I wouldn't consider it for pistol application. If you MUST use a single powder in both pistol and rifle, then I would say Unique is probably one of the better choices, however, you are severely limiting yourself on the rifle side. Plus, you'd probably find gold at the end of a rainbow before you'll find Unique anywhere on the shelf...
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you haven't found smokeless powder load data for the 45/70 I suggest you buy a reloading manual. There are a lot of them out there.
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I have a Lyman 49 edtion. That does not mean darn thing If you can NOT FIND POWDER. I can get primers but to even find 2 lbs of powder has taken my 2 years and driving to every place with in 100 miles as I am not going to buy online and have a 8lb limit put on me. I am not wealthy on a fixed income. *lbs for 300 bucks is stupid hence why I only have tow pounds of imr 4064. Literally all they had and the limit
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Right but I only have two rifle calibers nad really as long as I can get but with one working with cast bullets in the .45-70 and one okay in the 5.56mm as are local range is only 100 yards it doesn't need to hold 1/2 moa at 500.
 

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I would like to find one rifle pistol powder but given the different velocities really one for rifle. I would like imr 4064 but I can only find one loading with a jacketed bullet. The other problem is what I can find. Given I shoot 5.56mm , 45 acp which I use CLAYS for not the universal and of course my favorite round but have only been loading the .45-70 with bp substitutes because I haven't been lucky finding load data for powders that are smokeless
:questionmark:
Hey Cowboy,

Rx7, H 322 and H 335, will load .223 and "full snort" 45/70.

Clays, Universal Clays, and 2400 will handle most "pistol" chores. Clays and Universal Clays will handle all shotgun chores.

Later, Mark
 

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If you have access to a computer go to IMR's, Hodgon, or other reloading web sites or google and read about two best powders for your pistol and rifle. Just a thought. Good luck in your quest.
 

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My Pick 4 tha "All Around Powder" is Trail Boss. You can Load it in Anything :biggrin:
Even Works in Small Cannon:ahhhhh:
UncleSarge58
 

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OK, now I get it.
The only powders you can find on store shelves are Clays and (IMR?) 4064.
You're reloading for .223, 45ACP and 45/70.
This is going to be tough, let me see what I can find for data.
..
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
OK, now I get it.
The only powders you can find on store shelves are Clays and (IMR?) 4064.
You're reloading for .223, 45ACP and 45/70.
This is going to be tough, let me see what I can find for data.
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Yes that"s what I have been dealing with. The Clays I have 8lbs worth and have been using it a lot over the last year loaded about 3k probably with it so it is probably closer to 5 lbs left? I bought the imr 4064 because i Know it will work for the 5.56mm or 223 but as for the .45-70 I have not found any cast bullet loadings for it. There is also the Trail boss but I don't want to shoot it in the .45-70 or the 5.56mm just me. As far as Mark stated I think one Hodgens powders maybe on the shelf an I just need to look. the H335 I think or 336 seems to ring some type of bell. I just need more money to look.
thanks you all.
 
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I would like to find one rifle pistol powder
That would be a really great product if somebody ever develops such a thing. The closest possible propellant is Unique or Herco, which will go bang with reasonable success in almost anything, but in a rifle it's a bit short for energy to deliver much velocity. If the rifle and handgun were a .357/.41/44 Magnum, 2400 would work. If your rifles were both straight walled cases, you could make that work. But the 5.56 and .45-70 are very different in every way, and few powders bridge that gap.
 

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cds45/70,

Well, this thread is going on and on with, it seems, little positive result.

Now it may have slipped through on me as I went back and looked, but one thing I can't find is your listing the bullet weight and type for the 45/70.

Face it, you simply are not going to find one powder that is a be all do all in every caliber. As I've already said, you will find those that will safely go bang in many cartridges, but finding optimum is only done through testing in YOUR firearm!

I now have in front of me a copy of the 2010 Hodgdon's Annual Manual and in it are 4064 loads for both "Trapdoor" and "Modern" 45/70 with bullets in the range of 300 to 485 (Trapdoor) grains.

Also in the same magazine are listed 4064 loads for the .223.

One of the things we all face in looking at load data is simply the fact that today we have a HUGE selection of powders, many of which would safely go bang in a given rifle cartridge, HOWEVER the publishers of load data are faced with an overload of possibilities and therefore list those powders which in their tests have been proven to give the best results within the parameters of their testing goals.

That doesn't mean that load data listed for a jacketed bullet will not work with a cast bullet and the reverse, but that all potential loads for say a 400gr cast bullet, or jacketed, could go on for pages if everything that will safely go bang was listed.

I feel for ya, and when I began to load for the 45/70 I found the Mild to Wild possibilities to be almost overwhelming.

At this point, and although it is sad to say, you just need to suck it up, load up on handloading manuals including the annual Hodgdon publication, and maybe the "One book/One caliber" publication which draws their information from many of the powder and bullet makers, then prowl the web sites of Hodgdon, IMR, Accurate, Alliant, etc.

Take some time everyday to visit many of the sources for components and simply hang in for the long haul. Buy when you can, which better be, if/when you see it!

Components are still being manufactured and shipped, but the demand is so high we must be at the right place at the right time to score. For example a short time ago I saw a poster on a forum say there was IMR4198 available at a supplier. I checked and what do your know they did have it in stock and I ordered and received a nice supply.

By the way, IMR4198 works just fine in both the .223 and 45/70. I was in the right place at the right time.

So, all that to say simply that you had better be willing to hang on for the long haul or your likely to wash out before you even get started. None of our crystal balls are clear enough to even make a reasonable guess about when things are going to get better. SORRY!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
cds45/70,

Well, this thread is going on and on with, it seems, little positive result.

Now it may have slipped through on me as I went back and looked, but one thing I can't find is your listing the bullet weight and type for the 45/70.

Face it, you simply are not going to find one powder that is a be all do all in every caliber. As I've already said, you will find those that will safely go bang in many cartridges, but finding optimum is only done through testing in YOUR firearm!

I now have in front of me a copy of the 2010 Hodgdon's Annual Manual and in it are 4064 loads for both "Trapdoor" and "Modern" 45/70 with bullets in the range of 300 to 485 (Trapdoor) grains.

Also in the same magazine are listed 4064 loads for the .223.

One of the things we all face in looking at load data is simply the fact that today we have a HUGE selection of powders, many of which would safely go bang in a given rifle cartridge, HOWEVER the publishers of load data are faced with an overload of possibilities and therefore list those powders which in their tests have been proven to give the best results within the parameters of their testing goals.

That doesn't mean that load data listed for a jacketed bullet will not work with a cast bullet and the reverse, but that all potential loads for say a 400gr cast bullet, or jacketed, could go on for pages if everything that will safely go bang was listed.

I feel for ya, and when I began to load for the 45/70 I found the Mild to Wild possibilities to be almost overwhelming.

At this point, and although it is sad to say, you just need to suck it up, load up on handloading manuals including the annual Hodgdon publication, and maybe the "One book/One caliber" publication which draws their information from many of the powder and bullet makers, then prowl the web sites of Hodgdon, IMR, Accurate, Alliant, etc.

Take some time everyday to visit many of the sources for components and simply hang in for the long haul. Buy when you can, which better be, if/when you see it!

Components are still being manufactured and shipped, but the demand is so high we must be at the right place at the right time to score. For example a short time ago I saw a poster on a forum say there was IMR4198 available at a supplier. I checked and what do your know they did have it in stock and I ordered and received a nice supply.

By the way, IMR4198 works just fine in both the .223 and 45/70. I was in the right place at the right time.

So, all that to say simply that you had better be willing to hang on for the long haul or your likely to wash out before you even get started. None of our crystal balls are clear enough to even make a reasonable guess about when things are going to get better. SORRY!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
I think the best chance I may have would be the imr4198 or a re loader 7?
 

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The IMR 4198 and Reloader #7 will both work in a bunch of loads in the 45/70 and I see some loads listed for the RL7 under the .223 in my Speer book. Also some .223 cast bullet loads listed in Lyman Cast Bullet book. Lots of 4198 loads listed in both.

CDOC
 
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