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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought I was buying some 444 Marlin brass from a fellow a few weeks ago (not a member here) and what I got was loaded ammo. I wrote him back and asked what they were loaded with he said they were Remington 240 gr. JHP over 45 gr. IMR 4198 powder and cci200 primers. I also asked what was stuffed in the hollow point and I didn't get any answer at all. They all have a surfacing of rust from what ever is in the tip of the bullet. Some looked like small "chunks" and some looked solid filled, and I can't get it out so far by just picking at it. I have pulled all 40 of them to reload myself and the powder weight was right on 45 gr. and looks like the IMR 4198 in my canisters. They pulled pretty easily with out a lot of "hammering" and the empties still feel slightly flaired/belled.

Does anyone know of anything that was ever thought of as a "good idea" as far as stuffing a hollow point? I can't think of any reason to do so, and I can't figure out what is in the ones I have. I don't think it would hurt anything to load 'em up and shoot 'em, but I'm............perplexed here.........what could it be? why? I'll probably tumble the projectiles and re-load the primed brass as is. Unless somebody here convinces me why I shouldn't. I just wonder "what was he thinking?"..............:hmmmm:
 

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Looks like the same effect down in the cannelure, maybe its crusted and compacted old walnut tumbling media, giving the impression of rusting. Have seen corn cob get all up in hollwpoints like that before. While on the subject, how well does a 240gr HP perform on deer, compared to a SP at 444 speeds?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Looks like the same effect down in the cannelure, maybe its crusted and compacted old walnut tumbling media, giving the impression of rusting. Have seen corn cob get all up in hollwpoints like that before. While on the subject, how well does a 240gr HP perform on deer, compared to a SP at 444 speeds?
I considered that too, but it is rust, I'm 99% sure. I don't know how it works on deer, yet......I was planning on trying these, but now I'm not sure how they will perform, since they're not really hollow points anymore. I'd expect a pretty quick kill with that bullet out of a 444 if placed for a double lung shot, not so sure if it's a shoulder blade. mt sourdough is posting several bullet tests here in the 444 Marlin Forum, but I haven't had time to watch them all yet. What I've seen is pretty impressive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ahh HA! Never thought about trying that! I'll weight a few this afternoon and see what I get. I used a awl to try to pick some of it out and it feels like steel, I can't sink the awl in it like if it was lead and it doesn't break up like walnut media would. I just wondered if anyone had ever heard of doing this to a hollow point and if so, WHY? I am going to see what they weigh in at though, good thought GM.
 

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There has been all sorts of materials used to change the rate and amount of expansion of hollow points along with penetration capabilities. From the apparent dipping, I would guess a coating to “hard face” for better penetration on thick hides. Check it with a magnet to see if it has iron mixed in which would explain the “rust“. I would not tumble those since you are dealing with an unknown and could end up contaminating your tumbling media. Might try dropping them in a cup of a good solvent like MEK or some paint stripper to see if can remove it that way if want to salvage them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The reddish color is where these loads were stored nose down in some of the old Styrofoam cartridge holders that used to be in every ammo box. That is what they looked like as I removed them from the foam. It wiped off easily but the "stuffing" remains red and firm. My guess is that it will be magnetic, (another good thought by the way).

Zombie Loads,.....Martian blasters,...........hmmmm,...........didn't think of that either. I might've got a better deal than I thought. Maybe they'll be like tracer ammo.......or look like those glow-nocks on arrows these days when fired.
 

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Could it be some type of steel epoxy or bedding compound?
Years ago folks believed that you could make hollow points open up quicker by putting mercury in them and sealing it. I wouldn't use the bullet on game until I knew what the nut did to them first.
Have you cut one open?
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Another good ideer there CCB............I'll try to section one after I get home this evening.
 
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Just a thought and I have seen bullets where the person took a steel screw and screwed it into the nose of the lead bullets. This idea was the steel would push in to the lead on impact and spread the bullet. If these were done like that and then stored in the Styrofoam with the tips down, moisture would trap and cause the head of the screw to rust away. Leaving the rusted powder, discolored lead and a steel threaded stud in the lead bullet. The awl will feel the difference in material between the lead and steel. Just a thought! And there were those who did this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Here's an update; I tried first to see if the "substance" was magnetic, it's not. I was using a small magnet and it actually felt like it was lightly pushing the magnet aside (like polar opposites). I haven't been in a Science class in nearly 40 years, so I don't know if the lead and copper jacket would cause this or not.

Next I started weighing some of them. I only have a Dillon balance beam scale, so I set it to 240 grains. I weighed about a dozen or so and they all were just a few grains under 240, as the beam balanced about 1/8" below level when set at 240. So it's not a heavy material.

Then I glued one of the projectiles to a paint paddle and tried to cut it in half with a dremel tool. It was too large of a blade and slung the "stuffing" away as I cut into the bullet. Now one of them is useless for sure.

Finally I got out a safety pin, and under a lighted magnifier I dug until I got some pieces of it out, yes pieces......they were little pieces of "something" stuffed in the hollow point cavity. That photo didn't turn out, but I did get some better photos with the magnifier. It's not steel, but it still appears to have rusted......and it's in all 40 bullets.

I guess I'll never know what it is for sure, but I'm just going to leave it in there and load them back up for plinking ammo. I just can't imagine what the guy was trying to do........or for that matter.........what he used.
 

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It has a red clay look about it....looks kinda like the stuff you patch a hole in your muffler with....at .444 velocities they ought to act like a softpoint anyway, unless ya want to drill 'em out.
 

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Remove some of the stuffing and burn it in a gas flame and see what color the flame turns. (wear protective gear)
 

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Yep time to do a burn test but try a really small piece at first just in case it has some explosive/flash nature. Take note of the flame color.


You mentioned a magnet seemed to be pushed away? Only thing that repels a magnet is an opposite pole magnet. Try just a plan piece of steel and see if its attracted to that. Might have taken on a slight magnetic charge. Might be magnetic bullets for taking down super evil doers :flute: :biggrin:
 
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