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Which 444 did you use, Ballard or MG.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
I used the Ballard barrel for these tests for the reason that I was going to be shooting the heavier than 400 grain bullets. I thought about bringing the microgroove barrel to raise the velocities of the bullets under 400 grains, but chose to keep it simple and just bring the one rifle.
 

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In my test years ago with the 1-38 MG, and water jugs I did not come close to the erosion patterns your bullets exhibited, and I ran the Leadhead at 2400fps. Sadly non of those bullets was kept, I melted them down for fishing weights! That faster twist may cause more damage to the bullet then the slower twist, maybe next time you should use the MG for the Leadhead bullet and then we can see if there really is a difference!
 

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Discussion Starter #64
You know, Starrbow, I think you might be on to something there. I will be hitting the recycling center in the next couple of days. If I can get another 10 or so jugs I might make a run for one test with the 24" mg barrel.
 

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Another fantastic bullet test!!!! Sure wish I was close enough to help ya out with the grunt work, it would be great to witness these tests in person. I think the 310 Leadheads would do everything I'm interested in with the 444 where I live and hunt. Thanks again MT!!!!! Kudos to you for all the hard work and sharing with us!:congrats: DP
 

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Discussion Starter #67
I have plenty of topics to discuss following this last test, but one I want to mention right away.

I wish I had footage of the 220 Partition and Sage Country II tests. I was not planning on doing a SCII test this time but I had one hanging out in my ammo case that I use for my test bullets. After the Partition bullet test, I had more jugs left than I anticipated. I had a few other options, but the test with the Partition bullet go me thinking and I chose to follow that test with an SCII. I was thinking the load on the SCII bullet would be close to what I recorded with the Partition, so it'd make a good side by side comparison. As it turned out, the difference in velocity was only 8 fps.
Now I may be biased, admittedly, but I was even surprised by what I saw. The Sage Country II whupped the 220 Partition at all levels off the test. It's initial impact was at least as hard as the Partition, but looked as if it hit harder and it also penetrated further. So what does that say about our 444 Marlins? I know there are some serious 30 cal monolithic bullets out there, but one would think that a 220gr Nosler would be among the baddest and deepest penetrating of all 30 cal bullets. Most people, including myself, would consider 237gr bullet as adequate for deer sized game, but coming up a little light for bigger fur balls like elk. If the Sage Country II, in an apples to apples comparison, beats one of the baddest big game 30 cal bullets, does that mean I can use it on elk with confidence. I do not think that I would, because I have so many better options, but it is an interesting consideration.
I will say that the Partition exited the back, right corner of the 6th jug and somehow made it past the 7th row between the middle and right side row. It came to a stop on the table between the jugs in the 8th row. If the bullet would have not veered to the right, it would have gone into the 7th and maybe a little further. Even then, it would not have equaled the SCII.
 

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mt....the only thing that the partition bullet would have going for it if all else is equal, would be the BC...which would give the partition a trajectory edge.....but, to 200 yards I would expect the SCII not to give up that much if any to the partition. The greater BC of the partition would have benefits at 300 or so and beyond. At what distances do you hunt the elk....what would be a max yard range shot in your neck of the woods? I think that would be the deciding factor.

By the way I have started on those "special" bullets we discussed, and am hopeful in having them done and in the mail to you by weeks end. I have been tied up finishing off two stocks, hand lapping a barrel, and because you got a new pickup truck, well, I had to see if I could go get one for myself.....gotta keep up with the Jones (mt's), ya know?
 

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Discussion Starter #69
I just reviewed the 310gr LeadHead 1604 fps test and the 1613fps 265 FTX test and I have to change my verdict. The 310gr Lead Head is the clear winner in both initial energy transfer as well as penetration. Looking at both videos several times, it is clear that the Lead Head is dumping more energy at the start and it beats the 265 FTX at all levels of the test. Amazing! A hard cast bullets hits harder at 200 than the fancy tip jacketed bullet. It's hard to believe but I have undeniable proof.
 

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...because the heavier bullet (with a higher BC and SD) carries more punch down range and should penetrate deeper (if all other things are equal) than the lighter bullet...the heavier bullet maintains higher energy factors, the lighter bullet loses its punch early in flight. That is why I prefer heavy bullets....add to that heavy bullet a wide, flat meplat....and you have a winner!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #71
Flat Top, without a doubt you are correct, the Partition would have much greater long range performance. The Sage Country loses velocity/energy fast. At 100 yards, I am sure the Partition outperforms the Sage Country II. The comparison, yet, allows me to evaluate where the SCII fits in the scheme of things.
I'm not sure what you are talking about in regards to that other bullet.:flute:
You might want to put a heavy duty bumper on your new truck.
 

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Discussion Starter #72 (Edited)
I looked at the numbers, the LeadHead has almost 250ft/lbs more energy at impact. That is part of the equation that allows the Lead Head to dump so much energy early on and still penetrate deeper.
That touches on another subject that comes up again in the test. To truly understand how much a bullet is going to penetrate, you need to have an idea of what your bullet looks like after initial impact. In this particular example between the LeadHead and 265FTX, the 265 FTX forms a large, broad mushroom (close to 1 inch) where the LeadHead just gets a flat broad meplat of .523" with almost all it's weight intact. It's the difference in resulting bullet profile that is perhaps the biggest factor determining how deep a bullet penetrates.
 

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Those Leadheads are the definition of "Whompability" they are responsible for my need for a very wide Meplat on my bullet designs! I've settled pretty much on .350 for Meplat size in 44cal bullets.
 

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.....a heavier bumper......why? The bumper that comes with the truck is chrome plated plastic....aint that heavy enough? I mean, thats what all trucks come with now-a-days!:driver:
This coming from the man who goes ultra heavy, tsk, tsk.:hmmmm: Don't want them deer to get back up after you run em down,:driver: (I'm reading your signature line here.:flute:).:biggrin: DP
 

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I really don't see the fine mist!! But the camera angle and lighting was different.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
I really don't see the fine mist!! But the camera angle and lighting was different.
You are right about that. The camera angle, lighting and distance are all improved with most recent footage. The biggest and most obvious differences are proportionality and density.
 

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This coming from the man who goes ultra heavy, tsk, tsk.:hmmmm: Don't want them deer to get back up after you run em down,:driver: (I'm reading your signature line here.:flute:).:biggrin: DP
I am ashamed of myself!:biggrin:
 

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99.9999% of Rifleman in America if ask what he would rather hunt the world with, a 30-06 with the 220gr partitions or the 444 with any bullet, they would pick the 30-06! Most would never give the 444 any consideration! Like the old cigarette add used to say "you came a long way baby"
 
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