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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Howdy Everyone,

I am pretty surprised by it myself, but I seem to have recently become a lever addict! In the last 3 months I've added two 1892s in 357 (winchester/miroku & Rossi), a Henry Big Boy 357, a browning BL22, a Winchester 9422 XTR, and last but not least a 1966 336RC in 35 REM.

I stumbled across the 336RC in Cabelas yesterday and despite knowing very little about the caliber, the manufacturer, etc I decided "what the heck". I don't really hunt, so 30-30 or 35Rem are equally pricey for paper punching - without reloading. Upon discovering that I could use a 357/38 bullet in my 35 Rem reloads while retaining the option to use full house 35rem if desired on pigs/deer etc, I figured - why not? I'm not a total newbie and have a bit of experience with 38/357, and 6.5x55 swede (love that round) but 35 Rem is totally new.

So, with 20 Hornady LeveRevolution bullets as a seed kit, I'm trying to figure out how to make a good, inexpensive, plinking/target round! Essentially recreating the 357s I have in a 35 Rem case I guess but what the heck...

My questions:

1. Can I transfer over a 357 plinking load directly to the 35 Rem and retain good accuracy? I've used 125gr PLATED FP with 4.3gr TITEGROUP, standard primers (a 38 SPL +P load) with nice accuracy in the Rossi 92 that delivers 1139FPS from the muzzle of a 20 in rifle. Seemlingly directly analogous to the 336RC 35 Rem...so I would expect very similar velocity (Rossi is 1:30 twist so 336 (1:16) might prefer 158gr).

2. I assume Titegroup is pretty uncommon in a 35Rem rifle cartridge but which it is supposedly case volume insensitive, So what are some OTHER recommended recipes for target/plinking with accuracy? I've read here that 9.3 gr Unique w/158gr JHP, or 12.5g 2400 with 158gr JHP but don't have any velocity data?

ALSO - Ideally I'd want it under 1500FPS so I can use my Xtreme Plated bullets without fear of disintegration/leading. Hard cast would be nice but is problematic as local ranges ban exposed lead around here (sigh)...and Hornady XTP gets pricey for plinking... If that's too much of a goldilocks (ie Plated bullets and pistol powders) please let me know!

I do have a 1lb can of 2400 and 100 Hornady XTP 158gr that I could use as a fallback/failsafe, but I have 2000 PLated 125 & 158 g Xtreme bullets and 4 lbs of Titegroup!

If none of these raw materials lend themselves to happy shooting at paper with reasonable accuracy - please do let me know so I don't run down any rabbit holes!

Thanks in advance for the help - and for any sources for 35 Rem at reasonable prices!

Todd

PS I posted this a moment ago in the Mentor/Student area, but I think that may be a dormant section, If not, mea culpa, and forgive the double post.
 

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Get yourself a copy of CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD, the write up on the 35 Rem. has a load using 2400 and pistol slugs . Every serious gun person should have this book. It has a wealth of good info and many hours of worthwhile reading.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Thanks, for those that follow, I found these online references to be particularly helpful wrt pistol bullets and pistol powders in 35 Remington:

35 Remington Powder Weight /Velocity Data for the 125gr FPbb
35 Remington Powder Weight /Velocity Data for the 158r RNFP

a
nd Another Update from the InterWeb with a plethora of load data:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Levergun+loads:+the+.35+Remington.-a098124200

.35 REMINGTON MARLIN MODEL 336, 20-INCH BARREL


CAST BULLET LOADS


Bullet Load MV


CPBC 187 gr. FNGC 18.0 gr. XMP5744 1,462 fps
CPBC 187 gr. FNGC 15.0 gr. XMP5744 1,212 fps
RCBS 35-200 gr. FNGC 39.0 gr. BLC-2 1,998 fps


Bullet 3 Shots/50 Yards


CPBC 187 gr. FNGC 1 1/2"
CPBC 187 gr. FNGC 5/8"
RCBS 35-200 gr. FNGC 1 1/4"

JACKETED BULLET LOADS


Bullet Load MV


Winchester 200 gr. PPSP Factory 1,896 fps
Federal 200 gr. Hi-Shok Factory 1,986 fps
Speer 180 gr. FN 38.0 gr. AA#2520 1,959 fps
Speer 180 gr. FN 42.0 gr. BLC-2 2,088 fps
Speer 180 gr. FN 33.0 gr. H322 1,972 fps
Speer 180 gr. FN 35.0 gr. H322 2,066 fps
Speer 180 gr. FN 34.0 gr. AA#2015 1,925 fps
Speer 180 gr. FN 36.0 gr. AA#2015 2,066 fps
Speer 180 gr. FN 28.0 gr. Reloder 7 1,732 fps
Speer 180 gr. FN 30.0 gr. Reloder 7 1,832 fps
Speer 180 gr. FN 42.0 gr. Reloder 12 1,967 fps
Speer 180 gr. FN 44.0 gr. Reloder 12 2,052 fps
Hornady 200 gr. RN 39.0 gr. BLC-2 1,930 fps
Hornady 200 gr. RN 31.0 gr. H322 1,830 fps
Hornady 200 gr. RN 33.0 gr. H322 1,875 fps
Hornady 200 gr. RN 29.0 gr. Reloder 7 1,817 fps
Hornady 200 gr. RN 31.0 gr. Reloder 7 1,898 fps
Hornady 200 gr. RN 31.0 gr. AA#2015 1,687 fps
Hornady 200 gr. RN 33.0 gr. AA#2015 1,831 fps
Hornady 200 gr. RN 36.0 gr. H4895 1,791 fps
Hornady 200 gr. RN 38.0 gr. H4895 1,924 fps
Sierra 200 gr. RN 39.0 gr. BLC-2 1,962 fps
Sierra 200 gr. RN 29.0 gr. Reloder 7 1,832 fps
Speer 220 gr. RN 38.0 gr. AA#2520 1,958 fps
Speer 220 gr. RN 30.0 gr. H322 1,756 fps
Speer 220 gr. RN 32.0 gr. H322 1,841 fps
Speer 220 gr. RN 28.0 gr. Reloder 7 1,802 fps
Speer 220 gr. RN 30.0 gr. Reloder 7 1,869 fps
Speer 220 gr. RN 30.0 gr. AA#2015 1,643 fps
Speer 220 gr. RN 32.0 gr. AA#2015 1,788 fps
Speer 220 gr. RN 34.0 gr. H4895 1,664 fps
Speer 220 gr. RN 36.0 gr. H4895 1,820 fps


Bullet 3 Shots/50 Yards


Winchester 200 gr. PPSP 1 1/4"
Federal 200 gr. Hi-Shok 1 1/4"
Speer 180 gr. FN 1 3/8"
Speer 180 gr. FN 2 1/8"
Speer 180 gr. FN 1 3/8"
Speer 180 gr. FN 1 3/4"
Speer 180 gr. FN 1 3/8"
Speer 180 gr. FN 1 3/4"
Speer 180 gr. FN 1 3/8"
Speer 180 gr. FN 2"
Speer 180 gr. FN 1 1/4"
Speer 180 gr. FN 1 3/4"
Hornady 200 gr. RN 1 5/8"
Hornady 200 gr. RN 1 3/8"
Hornady 200 gr. RN 1 1/4"
Hornady 200 gr. RN 1 1/4"
Hornady 200 gr. RN 1 3/4"
Hornady 200 gr. RN 1 1/4"
Hornady 200 gr. RN 1"
Hornady 200 gr. RN 1 5/8"
Hornady 200 gr. RN 2 1/2"
Sierra 200 gr. RN 1 1/2"
Sierra 200 gr. RN 1"
Speer 220 gr. RN 1 3/8"
Speer 220 gr. RN 2"
Speer 220 gr. RN 1 3/8"
Speer 220 gr. RN 1 1/2"
Speer 220 gr. RN 1 1/2"
Speer 220 gr. RN 1 3/4"
Speer 220 gr. RN 1 1/4"
Speer 220 gr. RN 1 1/4"
Speer 220 gr. RN 2"
 

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Velocities obtained in smaller cartridges with equivalent barrel lengths of 20" will be a bit lower when identical charges are transferred to a 35 Remington rifle because it has a larger chamber and more room for the gasses to expand, especially early when the powder makes its highest pressure.

For example, 4.7 grains Bullseye would be way too hot for a 38 Special with 158 grain bullet and past Plus P, but it obtains about 1050 fps with a 148 grain wadcutter in the 35 Remington, and about 990 fps or so with the 358311, a 158 grain RN bullet for the 38 in Lyman mould persuasion.

I see no benefit and extra cost in using jacketed or plated bullets in 35 Remington reduced loads. FWIW, and likely due to how the rifle is throated, I've never received what I'd call acceptable small game accuracy with wadcutters. For me, the aforementioned 358311 has provided the finest plainbase bullet accuracy I've obtained in 35, with the downside that the bullet is ricochet prone when snot at shallow angles against the ground.

Accuracy with 2400 powder usually exceeds that of faster powders like Titegroup when both are shot in the 1000 to 1400 fps range, for the supposed reason that 2400 provides a little slower kick to the bullet. At these velocities pressures are also lower with 2400, which likely reduces gascutting of the bullet. The addition of dacron will also reduce the gascutting tendency, but this is best applied with 2400. I don't use dacron with fast powders like Titegroup. Titegroup provides approximately the same velocities as Bullseye with the same or similar charge weights.

A better description of Titegroup would be "less position sensitive" rather than insensitive, as all powders are position sensitive to some degree. Some just more than others.

Can you locate suitable cast bullets in diameters of .358" to .360."? If you can, cheapest shooting can be had. If you cannot, plated may work, but it would be to your benefit to choose 158's over 125's as the longer bearing surface heavy bullets usually shoot better. Reason being the center of balance and stability is closer to the bearing length of the bullet over the rifling. The opposite effect would be a bullet with a short bearing surface (that area engraved by the rifling) and a long nose, which would be poorly balanced and shoot just as poorly.

I've shot such reduced loads very extensively in the caliber, with such powders as Bullseye, Unique, Red Dot, 2400, 4759, 5744, 4227, etc. If looking for best accuracy I would choose a powder similar to the last four, with the understanding that somewhat more is needed per shot than the faster powders.

Cases used for light loads in rimless calibers should be dedicated to that use only. This is a very suitable final destination for cases that have gotten a little old for continued full power use. For cast bullets the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die is beyond compare, as it allows the neck to be sized adjustably, which is often a better fit for sometimes oversized cast bullets. Lubing cases and sizing them full length every time for light loads is a waste of time and lubricant, as the cases expand minimally on firing and do not need full length sizing. Another good reason to neck size.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
35Rem - Thank you for taking the time to share your experience! This is exactly what I am looking for.

1. Bullets : I have never used cast lead bullets (but for that matter 6 months ago I had 0 lever guns too.. :). I'd love to start using them - though the wife absolutely prohibits me from casting anything due to two young children in the house and a fear of any vapor/fumes from molten lead even outside... so for the foreseeable future I'll have to use my Xtreme plated stockpile or purchase precast lead bullets (lazercast? Berrys? Precision Delta). The other practical obstacle I face is the absurdly stupid rule my two closest indoor ranges have on shooting any exposed lead bullets (they ignore PSP, JHP etc so there really is no sense to this in my mind). So it seems plated are a happy medium to lead vs jacketed. There is an outdoor range where i could probably use them though and I may make the 1hr trek to get to it...

2. Neck Sizing Only/Crimp: Glad to hear that the Lee Neck Sizing die is highly regarded. I have used one in 6.5x55 loads and love it. I will try to hunt one down for the 35REM -- what about crimp on these light loads? My just ordered Lee Pacesetter die set will include the FCD - is this overkill??

3. Powder Choice: As you know it's tough to find anything out there now. I have more titegroup than anything and I use it in my 357Mag/38 SPL out of M92s and GP100. As it happens I also have 1 lb of 2400 and 1lb of ...5744. I'd love to use the 5744 as I have no other use for it -- but I haven't found ANY load info for it with 35 REM or 35REM light loads. Can you point me in the right general direction for some recipes that have worked from you - 158gr bullets RNFP, FP?

4. Brass: for now I have purcashed all the 35Rem I could find -- 60 rounds of Hornady LeveRevolution, clearing out the local Cabelas. It's a shame to waste these nice rounds punching holes in paper at 50 yards but there is no other source of brass that I can find. Any suggestions on sources of cheaper 35Rem factory rounds or even better brass?

To me the 35 REM is something of a "fun" project, compounded by the ability to tinker with cheap 357/38 and readily available powder while retaining the option to step up to full house hog busting loads. Thanks again for sharing your expertise!

Todd
 

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Let me find what I did with my loading notes and I will relate quite a lot.

As long as you are not casting in an enclosed unventilated room, your wife's fear of lead fumes is completely unfounded. There aren't any to worry about when done outdoors or in a room with sufficient fan type ventilation. Irrational fears are difficult to overcome, but she must be able to separate unfounded beliefs from actual fact, as here, to be a complete person in terms of asking for reasonable safety precautions. Banning casting lead bullets when conducted in the out of doors is being pretty irrational. Lead fumes are heavy and do not freely waft out of the pot and sit around the caster like a fog. Given a fan to direct air flow and you are as safe as can be imagined.

If someone were to suggest that I am risking some kind of health issue from my years of casting out of doors I would be pretty darn offended, as that person obviously doesn't have the slightest knowledge of casting bullets or the reasonable precautions that can be easily taken to make the hobby 100 percent safe.

One does not let misinformed people drive the bus in terms of dictating what is safe or pretty soon you won't be walking across the street to the grocery store as that is far more hazardous than casting bullets!

5744 is excellent for this use. It leaves a few unburned granules but that is why it shoots well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
35Rem,

Thanks again - I've been searching online and have found some more resources and loads from older threads. Just ordered a Lee Collet die off ebay - with these light loads I hope to get some long life from the cases.

It seems for my purposes with 158gr Plated RNFP or FP (or RN) 15-18gr of 5744 should yield ~1200-1500 fps which is ideal. I probably will create three loads - one with titegroup and mirroring my light 357/38spl load, one with 2400, and one with 5744. I'd hate to get a great load only to run out of powder after 300 rounds...so I'd certainly appreciate any notes you can share on load development. If I had unique, and knock on wood someday i will, I would work up a load with that - I've never used it but it sure seems versatile.

Regarding "grocery shopping" and such ;), I've also learned that it's best to pick your battles -- I've had to dig up research to overcome medical reports of lead exposure levels that HS coaches who spent years in unventilated indoor gun ranges had (they were high!) and promise to take measures such as wearing a special shooting jacket/shirt - not washed in the home laundry - to prevent transporting lead chips - and for a while promising to immediately bathe after shooting at the range (to eliminate lead from hair!). Part of this stemmed from a one-time blip on a pediatric lead blood test of our son - something like a 2 or 3 on a scale of 10 for lead (where 7-8 is reason for concern and they didn't previously make any kind of deal about a 2 or 3)... anyway, what matters is maintaining marital bliss and if I have to sacrifice cheap lead bullets made by casting in favor of somewhat more expensive plated or jacketed bullets it's a price I'll gladly pay :)

Todd
 

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The ban on all lead bullets on the range is rational, as to some degree lead bullets are gascut when fired and lead vapor is released, more so than jacketed bullets which cannot release lead vapor from gascutting if the base of the bullet is enclosed. However, what is not often realized is that priming compound also contains lead in most ammunition, and even jacketed bullet loads release it to the atmosphere......incidentally, much more so than casting bullets. But again, lead compounds are relatively heavy. That which attaches to smoke and such is of small volume and relatively short persistence, but I wouldn't want gun exhaust blowing freely into my face all day long if I was the rangemaster, for that matter. I don't shoot indoors on some ranges by preference as I don't trust someone else to maintain ventilation systems for myself. At best, indoor shooting should be an infrequent thing on the indifferently maintained ranges.

I do acknowledge, however, that well maintained and ventilated indoor ranges pose very very minimal health risks. On these, have at it all you want. The point is to recognize the well run ranges from the not so well run. I could tell you stories...........

The point I'm trying to make is that in an enclosed range, even a good one, you're risking more lead exposure than with casting bullets outside. Both risks can and should be low whether on the well maintained range or in front of the casting pot.
 

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talan 2000

welcome to the forum and welcome from Oregon have fun with you leverguns and dont shy away from cast bullets but i do understand picking your battles have fun and stay happy
 

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I use 10 grains of Unique in my .35 with a 158gr cast for plinking. That's a good starting point. But before you start tuning for accuracy, you should slug your bore.
 
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