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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All of my older reloading manuals are pretty close in their loads, even the new Lymans #49.... Well I got the newest Hornady #9 and was looking over load data for the 7mm Mag, WTH? 4gr difference to the low side and saying that it will still get the velocity...

Im going to have to get out the Chrony and test their loads against... say the Lymans data



Doc
 

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You are right Doc. All Hornady loads have been reduced. Generally that does not happen unless their are significant changes in the original powder lot, from the new powder. It's my understanding that powder is produced to specific specifications, thus we would not see load changes from year to year.
 

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That was the same thing I asked my dad in 1989 when I started reloading, Why do we need new books every year it the cartridges dont change? He said because Lawyers proofread the books. If you need really old first edition numbers I have tons of books from the early days.


Btw evil doesn't always Tiumph when good men do nothing, sometimes good men just need a day off to rest, have a beer or two or take their kids to disney worl....wait a minute, if Disney is making money, Evil is triumphing.....HOLY CRAP!!!! your right... AHHHH (Good man Runs from room)



Had to write that, thats why they call me Joker:biggrin:
 

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Things have certainly changed. I've loaded a lot of BL-C2 over the nears. The original load I chronied at 2220 for 34 gr. The last time I loaded the same measured load it came to 2050fps. I've had lot to lot variation, but that's crazy. I guess it goes to show you can't infer from one lot to the next. I'd be more worried if the data didn't change.
 

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I think it would really anger a lot of reloader if they realized their reloads were 10% slower than a factory round. Or that even those factory cartridges are not going full factory speeds. This is why dope is so important when shooting long range. If The book says you should dial up 60" and you have to dial up 75" you know there is something fishy going on!

Let us know what you find doc. If you have some old ammo from the 1980's or before chrono that and see how fast you are REALY going with brand new ammo.
 

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Im going to have to get out the Chrony and test their loads against... say the Lymans data
It's the only way to know what a load is doing in a specific rifle.

Most of Lymans data is now generated in a Universal Receiver with a SAAMI spec barrel and chamber. Few, if any rifles from the rack have dimensions at that minimum level. Most references suggest you are safe to load to the velocity in the book, if you follow the recipe, and can fit the charge in the case.

The interesting part of "working up" a load. You need faith above the top end.
 

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You are right Doc. All Hornady loads have been reduced. Generally that does not happen unless their are significant changes in the original powder lot, from the new powder. It's my understanding that powder is produced to specific specifications, thus we would not see load changes from year to year.
From what I have read. powder lots (depending on maker) have a built in +/- 3% to 5% lot to lot tolerance in burn rate...

What this means is that if Hornady tested a 97% lot last time, there is a chance that they are testing a 103% lot this time...
 

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It's the only way to know what a load is doing in a specific rifle.

Most of Lymans data is now generated in a Universal Receiver with a SAAMI spec barrel and chamber. Few, if any rifles from the rack have dimensions at that minimum level.
The new Henry 45-70 does have true SAAMI spec. dimensions. It seriously lowers your selection of available bullets, and all factory jacketed ammo fowls badly because it's all to a larger actual industry standard diameter. Still working on something it likes.
 
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This may explain part of what I experienced below with guys shooting reloads. This is a cut and past from an earlier thread.

Going back to Doc A's observation that the loads were below factory FPS. Had an opportunity several years ago to run about 80 hunters and about a 100 common deer rifles and loads over a chronograph as they verified zero for a controlled hunt. Taking into account barrels less than 24 inch in length, which is the length factories typically use as test barrels, most factory loads were about 100 fps slower than advertised, this included the enhanced performance loads. Reloads, for those developed without benefit of being checked against a chronograph by loader, were sometimes well under what the loader thought. This was especially true, when slow powders were combined with short barrels. 100 fps is less than 3% and isn't likely to cause measurable difference in on game bullet performance or even sighting in most calibers, but it does point out the usefulness of a chronograph in load development.
 

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Thought to give a little more info on the post above, and don't want to start any internet legends. Still use that accurate chronograph, on that same hunt, but not as much. There is one brand of very popular factory ammo that routinely meets advertised velocity and one that doesn't. For that brand that doesn't, folks shooting a 20 or 22 inch barrel are about 100 to 200 fps slower than they think, and that can be significant. There was one very insightfull story.

Fellow has a 18 or 18.5 inch 7mm-08 loaded with reloaded 140gr bullets. States, a certain manual showed this slow powder was giving him, by his estimation for this short barrel 2500 fps, the manual having used a 26 inch barrel . He had picked that powder because it showed the highest speed, of all the powders listed. The load did not not make 2200 fps, he was shocked. He sought the advice of loaders standing around, went with a quicker powder, and was satisfied with the results. Many of us know the effect short barrels can have, but in this case far exceeded the excepted loss of 30 fps, per inch of barrel loss that most of use as a rule. It goes to show what can sometimes happen when selecting a recommended powder, without checking with a chronograph. Per the comments of others on this thread, about recommended powders changing, this particular manual no longer list the powder that fellow initially used. Still know this guy, he has moved on to the new crop of magnums, long barrels, sings the praise of Mag Pro powder, and always uses a chronograph these days. To that I say, do what you enjoy, and actually use a bullet on a few head of game before you comment about it.

We also kept track of the rifles used. Bolt actions where the clear majority, followed by the semi, lever and one pump. No single shots. The most popular rifle was the the Rem 700, followed by Ruger and Winchester. The most common caliber was .270 followed by 30-06, 308, 243 and 7mm Rem mag. The most common scope was a 3x9. There was one Win 94 30-30, one BLR, two Marlin 336 (30-30 & 35) and one 450 Marlin. Based on observation, this has not changed much over the years. Some fellows, especially the reloaders enjoy keeping up with latest trends, and the various short magnums and what I'll call super magnums are present. But for the most part, the established bolt gun brands and calibers have maintained there position. I'm a little bit different, always carrying a lever, in the brush..

This reservation is large, and offers right of way and field/clear cut shots to long range, as well as hardwoods and deep brush. Most of these folks, prefer to set up in areas that offer the potential for longer shots, and I think that influences their selections of rifle type and caliber.
 

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This is one of the reasons I started to buy my powder in 8# cans... eliminating the need to work up a load because I changed powder lots. Load work wastes a lot of powder, bullets and... time.
 

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That was the same thing I asked my dad in 1989 when I started reloading, Why do we need new books every year it the cartridges dont change? He said because Lawyers proofread the books....
why would the manufacturers ask lawyers to proofread the books? to avoid lawsuits? lawsuits over what? injuries from reloading mishaps?

speer manuals have an article, "why ballisticians go gray." the explanation in that article is is not as popular as blaming lawyers, but it is interesting. definitely worth a read.
 

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Long ago I had, Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Lyman, RCBS.

Now I have TC, Lyman and Lyman cast. The others I gave to new folks to reloading. Comparing data book to book, when you have a chrony is a little moot to me.

Then seeing one manual with 4 gns more in the same cal is rather troubling to some.

To me I know all manuals are lawyer proofed. They are a guide not the bottom line.

One of the best loads I've ever obtained came from a Sierra manual and it was the starting load for 100gn Sierras and the .243 Win cut holes at 250 yds. I was done with the first test loads.

My bottom line no matter what is what groups the best then chrony it to develop the trajectory. Then test at the various ranges if possible, using the data in fps obtained from the chrony.

From time to time powder manufacturers do mess with us by changing the formula a little to get a little more out of their explosives.
 

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Thank you to all of you on this thread. I have learned a great deal here. I have just started reloading and am reloading 9mm, 45 acp, .223 rem, and 45-70. My next purchase is a chronometer just because I am into the data. I am starting to hunt feral hogs this summer in the great state of Texas!!! I love Texas!! The chrono will allow me to get the shoulder cannon into the fps I want so I can calculate psi force. I want to hit them hard!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I should dump all of my 8#'s into a big ol pot, stir and then back into their bottles so I know they will all be the same.... I really hate starting all over every time I have to open a new 8#'er



Doc
 

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I usually wait til my reloading guy can get me enough powder for the season (Usually 4-8# cans of Varget, 3-8# cans of TAC and an 8# of No5) and have him confirm all the same lot number from the Manufacturer but lately I have only been able to get 8-16lbs at a time so I have a reference rifle (H&R Handirifle in 308, one in 223 and one in 6.5 Grendel) and I test a few rounds from each lot to check them for consistency. I need to buy quick load for pressue tables but I have been stalling I use my 10.5" Ruger Super Blackhawk for my 44 baseline because its very consistant. Didn't start loading 35Rem yet so, ill cross that bridge when I get there. I do load a ton for friends and show them how to prep brass :) I usually have them bring bullets, cases and primers. Going to stop having them bring the primers though, a guy bought some at a gun show and brought them to me, turned out all were already fired, guy ripped him off.
 
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