Marlin Firearms Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have reloaded for 40yrs and this is a 1st.Couple weeks ago got a 444 Marlin.Got new Lee dies and just got new Starline brass today.Thought resize as I do all new brass.Lubed cases and most really made the press grunt ! Never ran into resizine new brass so hard.Was it the brass or dies?Anyone else run into this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
I just purchased a new 444 last week and also purchased some dies (Hornady) and new brass. I got some Starline, as well as some Hornady that I plan to trim for use with their FTX bullets. I just tried a few of each through the sizing die after reading your post. I didn't think the Starline was too hard to size, but was much harder than the Hornady for sure.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
545 Posts
I have used Lee Sizing Lube for decades,... always worked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Boris

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
For my new starline brass I dont resize it, no need to...

Load a couple up and see if they fit in your chamber...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
195 Posts
I have always been told, to resize and trim new brass as if it was once fired before the first loading. Any opinions on that practice? Am I just working the brass once for really no good reason?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ranchhand

·
Banned
Joined
·
545 Posts
I never thought about "sizing new brass" until I ran into a NEW and PUZZLING problem.
It was quite a few years ago, so, I don't remember if I wasn't sizing new brass, previous to the problem, but,
obviously I wasn't, since, SIZING all the new brass fixed the problem.

All the brass I started reloading with, for the first ten years, or, so, were my personal once fired brass.
I collected for years, before ever having a press, etc.! So, resizing was just a matter of fact!

My thoughts are,... one may not have a problem, sizing new brass,... until you have a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Minimum FL die dimensions have been a common complaint with the .444 for many years, some dies simply over-size the brass. I don’t have Starline cases to compare, but perhaps they are on the maximum diameter end of the SAAMI range compared to Remington or Hornady.



.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I have also found that to size new 444 Starline cases, I have to lean hard on the press handle and I use Imperial Sizing Wax and Hornady dies. I also use a Redding Ultramag Press, which is known for its power. Since I have not used other brands of brass (just recently started reloading for the 444), I really can't say whether this is normal or not. As someone else mentioned, it could be a tight die. When I buy more new brass, I'll check the fit in the chamber before I decide to resize.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,918 Posts
I have always been told, to resize and trim new brass as if it was once fired before the first loading. Any opinions on that practice? Am I just working the brass once for really no good reason?
I always resize new brass, trim it , and chamfer it. I never assume the manufacturer makes the brass to specs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,029 Posts
I resize new unprimed brass just to get correct neck tension.
Lots of time the mouth maybe tight but the rest of the neck won't be sized right.

I was gifted some store bought primed 357.and it was fine.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
15,611 Posts
I learned long ago to resize ALL new brass, I trim and chamfer too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
I have always been told, to resize and trim new brass as if it was once fired before the first loading. Any opinions on that practice? Am I just working the brass once for really no good reason?
Not really, been reloading for over 40 yrs and some 20 of those on the 444. I was in a hurry to reload up some for this years elk hunt (only had 6 rounds last year but usually only take one to do the job), used new Hornady brass but found two rounds that while would chamber with aggressive lever action, were very sticky on ejecting...lesson learned by this old guy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,271 Posts
Anneal the mouths before use.
Your sizing die could also be rough, or have a lubricant on it that is not compatible with the lube that you were using. (Did you clean the die before use?)
But I think the problem is probably mostly the brass.

Starline has an undeserved reputation for making great brass.
What they actually make is mediocre brass with one important step skipped at the end of production: Case neck/mouth annealing.

Most Starline brass has no final annealing performed, which results in very hard necks/mouths. This makes resizing difficult and, often, neck tension undesirable.
For "big bore" stuff, the necks are often too tight and cause high neck tension. But in smaller calibers, they're often too large and result in light neck tension (or, in the case of some of the .32 caliber cartridges, like .32 S&W Long, zero neck tension - and it cannot be corrected without annealing and sizing).

.444 Marlin is one of the few examples where neck diameter and neck tension are fairly usable. But the brass is still overly hard from drawing, and really needs annealing before use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ojaileveraction

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,029 Posts
Anneal the mouths before use.
Your sizing die could also be rough, or have a lubricant on it that is not compatible with the lube that you were using. (Did you clean the die before use?)
But I think the problem is probably mostly the brass.

Starline has an undeserved reputation for making great brass.
What they actually make is mediocre brass with one important step skipped at the end of production: Case neck/mouth annealing.

Most Starline brass has no final annealing performed, which results in very hard necks/mouths. This makes resizing difficult and, often, neck tension undesirable.
For "big bore" stuff, the necks are often too tight and cause high neck tension. But in smaller calibers, they're often too large and result in light neck tension (or, in the case of some of the .32 caliber cartridges, like .32 S&W Long, zero neck tension - and it cannot be corrected without annealing and sizing).

.444 Marlin is one of the few examples where neck diameter and neck tension are fairly usable. But the brass is still overly hard from drawing, and really needs annealing before use.
Starline talks about that on the sight
Our .45-70 brass has been tested at elevated pressures suitable for Magnum Heavy Hunting Loads in adequate gun systems. When loading with black powder, annealing of mouth may be necessary to allow case to properly seal chamber due to lower pressures generated by these loads. Our case is produced very strong to withstand high pressure loads associated with smokeless hunting loads and since the only way to make brass harder is to work the material our only option is to leave them stiffer so the customers can anneal for specific application. See annealing procedure in Frequently Asked Questions.​
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,271 Posts
Starline talks about that on the sight
Our .45-70 brass has been tested at elevated pressures suitable for Magnum Heavy Hunting Loads in adequate gun systems. When loading with black powder, annealing of mouth may be necessary to allow case to properly seal chamber due to lower pressures generated by these loads. Our case is produced very strong to withstand high pressure loads associated with smokeless hunting loads and since the only way to make brass harder is to work the material our only option is to leave them stiffer so the customers can anneal for specific application. See annealing procedure in Frequently Asked Questions.​
That's .45-70 specific (and 45-90, 45-100, and 40-65).
They make no similar claims about .223 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor, 30 Carbine, .32 S&W Long, .38-40, .375 Win, .44 Mag, .45 Colt, .444 Marlin, .480 Ruger, or the 117 other cases they make.

That excuse is also absolute BS.
You don't need an overly hard case mouth to withstand "Magnum Heavy Hunting Loads". The web and case head are what need to be hard there. The rest of the case is better off annealed for a proper gas seal and to prevent stress cracking from hard brass being stretched too far in sloppy chambers.

"We're lazy and cheap. But we'll throw this little bit of BS in our FAQ section so the customers think we're super smart and trying to help them."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ojaileveraction
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top